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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Brighton shows why you shouldn’t vote Labour - Julie Burchill (and a mention of IamSarah)

112 replies

IwantToRetire · 28/01/2024 01:36

The pleas of many local parents to rid our schools of pesty wokeness have fallen on deaf ears. Classrooms have become petri dishes for social experiments in defiance of parental wishes. Is it really possible that, a few years ago, one school in Brighton, labelled as ‘the coolest state secondary in town’, once had as many as 40 children who did not identify with their sex at birth with another 36 saying they were ‘gender fluid’? Or is this social contagion, as eating disorders are now often understood to be, among sad teenagers desperate to identify as something or anything, rather than feel lonely? Whatever it is, the council are hindering rather than helping these confused adolescents. Sometimes it seems as though there is an almost sadistic element to the way right-on teachers torment distraught parents. Isn’t it odd to send people who think diversely off for re-education, or re-‘training’?

And another thing, after boasting that ‘diversity is strength’, isn’t it odd to send people who think diversely off for re-education, or re-‘training’? This is what the Sainted Bella did after Councillor Alison Thomson retweeted posts supporting JK Rowling and the feminist Germaine Greer. Even though the culprit apologised unreservedly, Chairman Sankey frowned, ‘I have also taken the decision to remove Councillor Thomson from her lead role on city centre renewal while further investigation is carried out and subject to her completing training.’ Because nothing says not being qualified to work on renewing city centres like believing in women’s rights.

But not even the re-training of the hapless Thomson was enough for one Green councillor, Chloe Goldsmith. She asked how Labour would ‘meaningfully demonstrate’ to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, questioning/queer, asexual plus (LGBTIQA+) people that the party would stand up for them. This brought another avalanche of woo-woo affirmation from Labour, with the situation continuing ad infinitum.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/brighton-shows-why-you-shouldnt-vote-labour/

Brighton shows why you shouldn't vote Labour

I surely wasn’t the only Brighton citizen who breathed a sigh of relief when the Green council was turfed out by Labour last May.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/brighton-shows-why-you-shouldnt-vote-labour

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
AlphariusOmegron · 29/01/2024 18:15

FWIW I do live in Brighton and it’s a spangly turd. Beach is nice though.

IlsSortLaPlupartAuNuitMostly · 29/01/2024 17:51

OldCrone · 29/01/2024 17:46

I had a look at your link. It's not true that most Tories voted against same-sex marriage. It's true that more voted against (136) than for (127), but you forgot about the 5 abstentions and 36 who didn't vote. So it would be correct to say that most Tories didn't vote for same-sex marriage, but not that most voted against.

If you're interested in accuracy, you should be accurate.

Edited

Fair enough.

OldCrone · 29/01/2024 17:46

IlsSortLaPlupartAuNuitMostly · 29/01/2024 08:19

The statement is precisely accurate.
Cameron, with the backing of his front bench, and to his immense credit, pushed through same-sex marriage in the teeth of his party's resistance and most of them voted against it.
It was the manifesto position of all
three main parties in the previous election.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage(Same_Sex_Couples)_Act_2013

Edited

I had a look at your link. It's not true that most Tories voted against same-sex marriage. It's true that more voted against (136) than for (127), but you forgot about the 5 abstentions and 36 who didn't vote. So it would be correct to say that most Tories didn't vote for same-sex marriage, but not that most voted against.

If you're interested in accuracy, you should be accurate.

IwantToRetire · 29/01/2024 17:36

This is so effing boring.

There are endless links to Telegraph articles, and if anything they are at least as bad if not worse than the Spectator in having right wing, racist, male reactionary journalists.

It is the numbing silliness of thinking anyone on FWR has posted a link to try and persuade someone how to vote.

Try and engage with the issue.

This is a forum for discussion.

I am not in Brighton but I do live in an inner city area which has had Labour in power for decades. It has some of the worst housing in the UK. It has or had a Labour mayor who had to resign because of covering up sexual abuse by a co-councillor (who he shared a house with). At a recent by-election the democratically chosen Labour contender was suspended a few days before the vote, and was only re-instated after issuing a humiliating "apology".

The real danger from Labour is silly acccolytes behaving like unthinking handmaidens that allow this Party to be so useless.

At a time when more than ever, given the record of the Tories under their many PMs, you would think Labour would be able to come up with something remotely resembling socialism.

But they dont because they are cowardly and weak, and would prefer to get elected on a manifesto that is watered down conservatism.

So the real danger from Labour are those who subserviantly promote them, and fail in their duty as an active citizen, to constructively criticise them.

This is the sort of dumb posture politics, very similar to TRAs in fact, who try and deny reality and abuse people who point out reality, as being some sort of traitor.

Dont forget many of the financial problems that institutions like education and health, are because of the stunningly stupid PFI. ie more money is going on paying of the debt to private finance than going into service provision.

Labout didn't reverse one of the most destructive actions of Thatcher, the sale of council housing and the block on building anything new.

If you want people to vote Labour, ie encourage all of us who probably wont vote, you really need to come up with some well argued points from Labour about how they are going to improve peoples lives.

But keep on shouting from your soapbox if it makes you feel superior.

But accept that far than convincing people you just antagonise them.

And to get back to the issue, if would have been more productive to have provided evidence about how a Tory run council was just as bad, for instance.

And by tahe way, if you really think that the purpose of posting on FWR (Feminist and Women's Rights) is to persuade people to vote how you think they should vote, why dont you start your own thread.

All that is happened is all those who actually appear not to be convinced enough about the arugement to vote Labour, because they never start their own thread about this, is that year another thread is taken up with repititious to and fro that now most threads drown on.

I honestly thought this thread would get a few, "I really like JB's writing", "Well its Brighton what did she expect", or even why post, we all know that about Brighton.

The responses are so insulting towards the thinking levels of those who contribute to FWR.

I look forward to a well argued presentation about why we should all vote Labour as the OP for a new thread.

As if ...

(edited to correct numerous typos resulting from typing in a temper!)

OP posts:
TempestTost · 29/01/2024 16:13

SaffronSpice · 29/01/2024 09:37

I’m impressed by the way the Spectator recruits for their internships - purely on the basis of written tasks, and any reference to your qualifications or experience disqualifies you.

I didn't know that, it's quite interesting. I am sure it must pay off for them long term.

pickledandpuzzled · 29/01/2024 14:45

I’m shocked, @SaffronSpice Shocked I tell you. No practicing of funny marches? Scrutiny of moustaches? Mine’s coming along quite nicely, thought I’d be a shoe-in.

SaffronSpice · 29/01/2024 09:37

Sausagenbacon · 29/01/2024 09:20

My Left-Wing friend, for the sake of balance, takes the New Statesman and The Spectator. She often says how much better the journalism is in the latter.
I have a subscription and always find something of interest in it.

I’m impressed by the way the Spectator recruits for their internships - purely on the basis of written tasks, and any reference to your qualifications or experience disqualifies you.

SidewaysOtter · 29/01/2024 09:33

this isn't the only important thing to think about when it comes to policies.

For some women it is. Who are you, @Dinoland, to tell other people what they should and shouldn’t prioritise?

Sausagenbacon · 29/01/2024 09:20

My Left-Wing friend, for the sake of balance, takes the New Statesman and The Spectator. She often says how much better the journalism is in the latter.
I have a subscription and always find something of interest in it.

RebelliousCow · 29/01/2024 09:16

Dinoland · 28/01/2024 07:13

And yet the OP is linking to an article telling people not to vote Labour.
I'll vote for who I want to vote for m'lord.

People can decide for themselves who they vote for, or whether they spoil their ballot. If I lived in Brighton I'd not be voting Labour either.

I live in Liverpool, and there is a not a chance in hell I'll be voting for my Labour MP. She's a resolute TWAW; and spend the rest of her time vitue signalling and being utterly ideologically predicatble. She refuses to meet with her constituents if their views do not align with her commitments.

I'm an ex Labour party member.

RebelliousCow · 29/01/2024 09:12

Dinoland · 28/01/2024 02:16

Oh for goodness sake. I'm gender critical but the Spectator is a stuffy hate rag and what the Tories are currently doing to this country is horrendous.
The answer is not keeping Labour out. Yes they are not perfect and I wish they'd rethink their views on this matter but this isn't the only important thing to think about when it comes to policies.
Fuck the Spectator with all its racism. Think again OP.

No it isn't!. It is a legitimate magazine with writers of quality. Julie Bindel and Kathleen Stock amongst many others have written for it. It might not conform to certain narrow ideological constraints, but that doesn't make it a " Hate rag"

IlsSortLaPlupartAuNuitMostly · 29/01/2024 08:19

ResisterRex · 28/01/2024 07:43

I don't think I'll ever forgive the Tories as most of them voted against equal marriage

This is factually incorrect because Cameron brought it in, whereas Labour actively avoided it and brought in the GRA instead. Precisely so they didn't have to equalise marriage. That's the truth, like it or not that is the history there.

The statement is precisely accurate.
Cameron, with the backing of his front bench, and to his immense credit, pushed through same-sex marriage in the teeth of his party's resistance and most of them voted against it.
It was the manifesto position of all
three main parties in the previous election.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage(Same_Sex_Couples)_Act_2013

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013 - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_(Same_Sex_Couples)_Act_2013

Maddy70 · 29/01/2024 08:11

Dinoland · 28/01/2024 02:16

Oh for goodness sake. I'm gender critical but the Spectator is a stuffy hate rag and what the Tories are currently doing to this country is horrendous.
The answer is not keeping Labour out. Yes they are not perfect and I wish they'd rethink their views on this matter but this isn't the only important thing to think about when it comes to policies.
Fuck the Spectator with all its racism. Think again OP.

This in buckets

WaterHound · 29/01/2024 08:08

IwantToRetire · 28/01/2024 20:19

Fuck the Spectator with all its racism. Think again OP.

Oh grow up.

Yet again an article which has a link to it posted for its content, is hijacked by someone who thinks posters on FWR are so dumb they will succumb to the origins rather, than as intelligent, autonomous thinkers, consider what someone is saying about the area they live in.

And even if its purpose was to get people to vote Tory, as someone who doesn't live in Brighton like the majority of us on FWR, what difference does it make.

More and more threads on FWR are being hijacked by posters who never start a thread about what they are really interested in, but constantly derail other threads.

Honestly, have you only just joined FWR. Nearly every other thread comes down to the despair at the failure of Labour both at a local and national level to show any respect for women.

And nearly every time contributors to the thread say they wouldn't have to post links to right wing paper if so called left papers (are there any in fact?) every covered women's issues.

I'm more surprised that anyone is surprised by JB's take on Brighton as nearly every thread about Brighton says the same thing.

And personally I am not that taken with JB's writing, but I know others do.

And unlike the egotism of the commentator who felt entitle to tell me how to think, I am happy to share and listen to others.

So next time you tell someone to think again, at least come up with some original thoughts.

That's the problem with those who think they are on the right side of history (ie left) is everything is just vacuous pontification. No wonder the TRAs flourish under Labour.

Yes. All of this.

Ramblingnamechanger · 29/01/2024 01:39

I guess that what many of us will do is look at the actual candidates in their own constituency, ask the questions most important and voting accordingly. There are MP s on both sides, would like to say all but not convinced, who are hard working and know what they are talking about, prepared to change their minds and influence policies having seen the evidence. These are the ones we could vote for whatever the party. But if there were any standing on one issue . Ie women’s and children’s rights and needs, I would put my vote right there.

TempestTost · 29/01/2024 00:28

I kind of take the idea of the headline - which is admittedly a little provocative - as not so much "listen to me and vote for who I say" as "here is what is going on in a Labour led area, so if you are thinking of voting for them be aware that you should expect them to behave in this way."

Which I think is fair enough. Obviously they might not, and a national government is different in many ways. But it works both ways. Many people feel they need to vote Labour because the Tories need to go due to the real results we see from their policies and governance which we can see in front of us. They could, of course, change and take a new direction, but we shouldn't be surprised if they don't.

Well, we can apply the same logic to Labour. They may be the best of a bad choice, but no one should be surprised if they get in and continue with the same authoritarian control of dissent in the party, and same kinds of misogynistic policies.

JanesLittleGirl · 28/01/2024 21:38

IwantToRetire · 28/01/2024 20:19

Fuck the Spectator with all its racism. Think again OP.

Oh grow up.

Yet again an article which has a link to it posted for its content, is hijacked by someone who thinks posters on FWR are so dumb they will succumb to the origins rather, than as intelligent, autonomous thinkers, consider what someone is saying about the area they live in.

And even if its purpose was to get people to vote Tory, as someone who doesn't live in Brighton like the majority of us on FWR, what difference does it make.

More and more threads on FWR are being hijacked by posters who never start a thread about what they are really interested in, but constantly derail other threads.

Honestly, have you only just joined FWR. Nearly every other thread comes down to the despair at the failure of Labour both at a local and national level to show any respect for women.

And nearly every time contributors to the thread say they wouldn't have to post links to right wing paper if so called left papers (are there any in fact?) every covered women's issues.

I'm more surprised that anyone is surprised by JB's take on Brighton as nearly every thread about Brighton says the same thing.

And personally I am not that taken with JB's writing, but I know others do.

And unlike the egotism of the commentator who felt entitle to tell me how to think, I am happy to share and listen to others.

So next time you tell someone to think again, at least come up with some original thoughts.

That's the problem with those who think they are on the right side of history (ie left) is everything is just vacuous pontification. No wonder the TRAs flourish under Labour.

This

IwantToRetire · 28/01/2024 20:19

Fuck the Spectator with all its racism. Think again OP.

Oh grow up.

Yet again an article which has a link to it posted for its content, is hijacked by someone who thinks posters on FWR are so dumb they will succumb to the origins rather, than as intelligent, autonomous thinkers, consider what someone is saying about the area they live in.

And even if its purpose was to get people to vote Tory, as someone who doesn't live in Brighton like the majority of us on FWR, what difference does it make.

More and more threads on FWR are being hijacked by posters who never start a thread about what they are really interested in, but constantly derail other threads.

Honestly, have you only just joined FWR. Nearly every other thread comes down to the despair at the failure of Labour both at a local and national level to show any respect for women.

And nearly every time contributors to the thread say they wouldn't have to post links to right wing paper if so called left papers (are there any in fact?) every covered women's issues.

I'm more surprised that anyone is surprised by JB's take on Brighton as nearly every thread about Brighton says the same thing.

And personally I am not that taken with JB's writing, but I know others do.

And unlike the egotism of the commentator who felt entitle to tell me how to think, I am happy to share and listen to others.

So next time you tell someone to think again, at least come up with some original thoughts.

That's the problem with those who think they are on the right side of history (ie left) is everything is just vacuous pontification. No wonder the TRAs flourish under Labour.

OP posts:
MrGHardy · 28/01/2024 20:09

You are displaying exactly the thinking applied by all self-proclaimed progressives these days. Guilt by association. Judging not what is said but who says it.

It's pathetic and polarizing.

WaterHound · 28/01/2024 19:02

pickledandpuzzled · 28/01/2024 11:43

I would describe it as hating proscribed beliefs/opinions.

I don’t understand why freedom to think variously- which should be middle ground- has become ‘right wing’.

The existence of the actual extreme right seems to have been forgotten in favour of attacking centre for being insufficiently left.

Yes this.

Clavinova · 28/01/2024 17:04

RayonSunrise
Some of us will never forget that Penny Mordaunt - now considered a front runner for the post-Sunak Tories - was the original architect of Self-ID in England

I thought Penny Mordaunt was appointed Minister for Women and Equalities in 2018 - did she write Labour's 2017 manifesto pledge?

July 2017 Jeremy Corbyn
“Discrimination has gone on too long. The Gender Recognition Act does not allow trans people to self-identify their gender and forces them to undergo invasive medical tests...

“Labour recognised this in our manifesto, pledging to update the act...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/19/let-trans-people-self-identify-gender-corbyn-urges-may

WaterHound · 28/01/2024 16:51

Dinoland · 28/01/2024 02:16

Oh for goodness sake. I'm gender critical but the Spectator is a stuffy hate rag and what the Tories are currently doing to this country is horrendous.
The answer is not keeping Labour out. Yes they are not perfect and I wish they'd rethink their views on this matter but this isn't the only important thing to think about when it comes to policies.
Fuck the Spectator with all its racism. Think again OP.

😂😂

SaffronSpice · 28/01/2024 16:37

If you think the editors of the Spectators give two shiny shits about women's rights, you're very, very mistaken. They just hate 'wokism' (god I hate that word) and trans people more than they hate feminism.

How do you know this if you make a point of never engaging with it?

SaffronSpice · 28/01/2024 16:36

Dinoland · 28/01/2024 11:36

@OldCrone yes, that's my point. I've answered that question further down.
What I can't do is be ok with a publication because I agree with its view on one single point when I find their stance on most other points entirely objectionable.
It's left me newspaper-less and I don't know who to vote for. I need to weigh up the less of a few competing 'evils'.
What I will never do is ever buy the Spectator nor vote Tory.
If you think the editors of the Spectators give two shiny shits about women's rights, you're very, very mistaken. They just hate 'wokism' (god I hate that word) and trans people more than they hate feminism.

If you object to every newspaper, may I suggest a more radical approach? Rather than be ‘newspaper-less’, read them all? (Access them via your library online). Expose yourself to a range of views, including the Telegraph, Spectator, the Daily Star and the Mirror.

Hepwo · 28/01/2024 12:47

I love Julie Birchill!

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