Year 8 trans child - in secret

I am Joe comfortable with that either.

But that’s not the situation we are in. That’s not the situation here. There’s massive concerns around that child. For that child and the other children.

Whether we agree in principle about trans children, isn’t the point. Telling people now would be outing them. Whether we think it should have happened in the first or not. Isn’t going to change this situation.

Trans children are extremely vulnerable.

All children are vulnerable. It's part of being a child. And girls are vulnerable if there are boys who are pretending to be girls and adults aren't telling them that they are really boys.

Have they been told that?

Or have they assumed from appearance and name? No teachers ever went through the register and confirmed everyone’s biological sex when my kids were at school.

I am not entirely comfortable outing a child at school.

I'm not at all comfortable with people pretending that children have changed sex. It's harmful to that child as well as harmful to all the other children who are being lied to.

There should be no such thing as 'outing' a child's sex at school. They shouldn't be pretending to be the opposite sex in the first place and the adults around them, both teachers and parents, shouldn't be pretending that they're the opposite sex.

Do children have a right to all the private information about another child?

I would have far more issue with this if the child in question was using shared facilities. The other concern is PE.

But I am not sure children should ever expect to be given someone else private Information. Would you expect a teachers medical history to be the knowledge of the children?

Its very complicated for schools.

The OP said that the child is a boy, but the other children have been told by the staff at the school that he's a girl. So they are being lied to.

There is plenty of private information that is not shared with children. This does not mean they are being lied to. It means it is private and none of their business.

This doesn’t make sense and since it’s not a secret you may find that people do know. I can’t work out why it’s obvious from looking at the mums open Facebook page but no one knows. That’s not likely

You haven’t found yourself in a difficult position. You put yourself there. You went through the mother’s Facebook. You can’t tell me it’s a secret that her ‘daughter’ is actually her biological son and it’s a secret she keeps to herself. But she posted recent Facebook photos of him clearly looking like a boy.

This is situation could be far more complex than you know. I am not entirely comfortable outing a child at school. Though, as op said above the child could be I in danger if someone asks the child to be their girlfriend and it later comes out.

I do get the sense the Op is wanting to tell her daughter in the hope she lets the cat out of the bag. And using your child to out another child is a terrible idea.

I am also not sure the school has responsibility to ensure everyone knows that this girl is a boy. Especially if the boy is using private facilities. Trans children are extremely vulnerable. And while they can cause issues for other vulnerable groups, this is a child that is struggling with some sort of issues. the parents could even be the cause of these issues.

It’s a very delicate situation. Where the child in question is very likely to be struggling and possibly a victim of the system that’s in place.

It will become clear very very quickly. If people don’t know already they soon will.

I think it could definitely prompt a situation where you discuss this issue with your daughter and remind them that not everyone is what they appear. Not just in relation to the trans issue. I am more sure I would tell my daughter. Given the current situation he outing this child, even by accident could really cause her problems.

Children need to understand that, actually, they don’t need to be told everything. Their parents might make mistakes in keeping something from them, but more often than not it’s protect them. And as adults we need to make that judgment call. Even if it does come out. There’s no reason for the daughter to know the Op knew.

Well no - they’re not being lied too. They’ve not asked and been told explicitly that the child is a girl/boy. They don’t know any different - they’re not sharing a changing room/toilet with them - there’s no need for everyone to know everyone’s business or sex.

Do you really think it doesn't affect all the other children if all the adults in the school are lying to them?

It's also the lives of all the other children in the school, who, it appears, are being lied to by the staff.

Given that you only know through snooping and that the school have taken appropriate measures such as separate changing, it really isn't any of your business. Adults keep plenty of information to themselves so there is absolutely no reason to share this gossip with your dd.

This. There is no need for you to essentially ‘out’ this child to their peers who they will be with for at least 3 years more - there’s no need for the other kids to know whatsoever as it’s not affecting them.

This could be so dangerous, if any of the boys have said they fancy this ‘girl’ or been boyfriend/girlfriend they could feel humiliated when they find out and teenage boys aren’t known for being great at controlling their tempers!

Have you spoken to the head, OP? That seems like the obvious first step. The school are keeping a secret from the children that may impact on their wellbeing. To put it more bluntly, they are lying to the children. Given that schools rely for their smooth functioning on the ability of pupils to trust the staff, this would seem unwise.

I also think it unlikely that you are the only person who knows. At some point, another adult will let it slip to their child, and the child will tell their friends, and then it won't be a secret any more. Quite possibly all hell will break loose at this point, and the head and SMT are going to find themselves in an even trickier situation than they are at present.

Thank you for your considered response.

This pupil is in year 8 so while legally a child they will be 12 and on the brink of adolescence. It’s at this time that problems will surface. They are obviously getting support and should be allowed space. It’s the child’s life and rubbernecking is not going to help.

You believe that there is something called being trans. That is your belief and you're entitled to hold that belief. I don't share your belief. I believe that your belief is particularly harmful when applied to children.

Children cannot be transsexual. If adults want to be transsexuals, fine, but it's not appropriate for children.

How can you shout about treating trans people with dignity and respect whilst simultaneously making it so shameful it has to be secret?

This is one of the many inconsistencies in the trans narrative.

We should treat trans people with dignity and respect, just as we should do with everyone else, but we should also celebrate their transness.

At the same time, we're not allowed to know they're trans unless they choose to tell us. But why should we not know about it if it's something to be celebrated?

And then when we find out that they're trans and they didn't tell us, and that they've been lying to us about their sex, it's going to be difficult to respect them because of their dishonesty.

Pretending to be someone you're not, and lying to everyone about it, is never going to end well.

This bullshit is why I rarely read the feminist boards on Mumsnet anymore.
I think there’s a major problem with sport and I think women’s safeguarding can be threatened sometimes by self id, but I also think some people are trans.

It’s none of your business. Zip it.

You are saying that this child is a boy and pretending to be a girl but you don’t know that, neither does OP.

No one else has mentioned this at all, so why would OP start spreading a rumour about a child that may not be even true.

Going against the grain here but I agree with not telling your daughter. If she outs them it could make things difficult for her at school. Plus there is a small chance you’re wrong, if you’re going off of social media pictures.

As others have said, it’ll all become obvious soon enough, I’m surprised people don’t already know if there are public images on social media.

Approaching the school would be a waste of time, they won’t discuss another pupil with you.

I’d just keen an eye out on any future friendships etc with this child if your DD has had issues with them already.

Honestly, I think you’re reading too much into this and have spent way too much time and energy on it.

You don’t know the full story.
You say you’ve been on the parents SM but that doesn’t really give you much info.

You could be looking at a completely different child or perhaps the parents tried raising them as a boy but their true sex is a girl or they’re ‘intersex’ and the parents had to choose one gender but as they’ve gotten older it has become more obvious that they identify as the other one.

It is not very often when a teen keeps these sorts of things secret (often it’s done for attention purposes) and the fact that it’s been kept such a big secret (not even telling their best friend), suggests that there are bigger reasons here.

There are no safe guarding issues if they’re using the disabled toilet etc and so there’s nothing to worry about.

Keep quiet and stop spending your time trying to find out what genitalia a child has, as no matter how much digging you do you will never truly find out.

As they get older it will likely become more obvious and then it’s up to the child/school to discuss it or make changes.

And the adults around them are teaching them not to accept their instincts (their knowing) and certainly not to express them. It is the safeguarding nightmare. How are we managing to fail this generation of kids so spectacularly and so recently after the revelations of abuse scandals in recent years. Astounding to me!

You know, so you should let your daughter know. This isn't your secret to keep. You have no connection or loyalty to the boy you have a duty to your daughter though to ensure she is armed with the full facts.

And whilst it might not feel great to tell her you aren't the mother with a son pretending to be a daughter and an open Facebook account. Sooner or later someone will tell your daughter, it might as well be you.