Year 8 trans child - in secret

Thankyou for sharing your experiences and providing a very helpful and necessary sense of perspective from an angle that is rarely seen in these kinds of discussions.

It sounds like school was a tough ride - hope things worked out for you as best they could.

I am well aware of the actual figures. That is why I asked the question the way I did.

4000% of how many referrals?
To how many referrals?

Read the thread Butterfly. The figures have been posted on this thread.

Perspective is important!

4000% of how many referrals?
To how many referrals?

It was almost impossible to find out there even were services available back in the 90's, and the stats only reflected those who:

-were able to work out, from base principals, what they were experiencing and how to communicate it
-found out the service existed and thus knew to ask for a referral
-were allowed by their parents to ask their GP for a referral
-were successfully referred by their GP

The first trans people I ever learned about were trans boys.
The first trans person I ever met was a trans boy.
We were well aware of the apparent numerical skew in the stats and how they didn't reflect actual population distributions over a quarter of a century ago.
We were also aware of non-binary trans people though we didn't use that terminology at the time. I first heard the term 'binary' used in relation to gender somewhere around 2000:

"God made them man and woman; male and female made he them. Spare a thought for the outliers and the in-betweens who exist between the extremes of male and female. In a binary world, they are analogues."

The words changed over time as our understanding improved and we realised we were only glimpsing a small part of the picture.

Until men stop committing 90% of violent crimes and 99% of sexual crimes, men have no right to trick the public into thinking they are women.

A social climate where an out and visible trans girl was murdered last year by schoolmates for being trans isn't the slightest bit relevant to another trans girl's decision not to disclose her past for safety?

It's an excuse to out a 12 YEAR OLD

I object to this being equated to homosexuality and the terrible ways people would out gay men and lesbians who then ended up in jail.

This 12-year-old is male and keeping that hidden means others around him are acting in ways they would never if it were known he is a boy. And that's not bigotry-half of children are boys and that is perfectly okay (obviously) but we expect every single other boy to follow social norms, policies and legal rules when sex matters!

There are other things that cannot be kept private because they put others at risk: communicable diseases for one. No one thinks a child who has the measles should be allowed in school and their disease kept hidden if in contact with others!!!

I'm glad you said that 😀I was well confused.

Sorry that was meant for metabolic not amaryllis!

Amaryllis- children & teens are very of each others sex! Have you never met any? The one thing they are less bothered about is sexuality and kids who don’t follow stereotypes. But that is far from universal and the trans fad is causing real harm as girls who aren’t considered ‘girly’ enough or have short hair are now assumed to be ‘trans’.

Yes indeed, @AmaryllisNightAndDay How dare these entitled teachers carry out this bizarre experiment on other people's kids. It's a re-run of the John Money experiment.

I am so very glad that children today are enormously accepting and generally completely unbothered by each others sexuality, genders, sex and anything else.

What makes you think that? Most 12 year olds are very bothered by each other's sexuality, genders, and sex, and are strongly influenced by each other.

And if the other children weren't likely to be bothered this child and the child's parents wouldn't have been keeping it secret.

We agree this is for the school/ parents and not for OP or anyone else to dictate at what point this child (if she even is trans) is outed.

I am so very glad that children today are enormously accepting and generally completely unbothered by each others sexuality, genders, sex and anything else. I think you’re right and at some point if this girl is trans, it will come out organically and likely with no fanfare whatsoever.

There is an enormous difference between objecting to trans ideology on the whole and debating whether to cause harm to a 12 year old you’re not in any way responsible for and connected to only through a school community.

OP has said the child has separate toilet and changing facilities (whether that's an appropriate use of accessible facilities is a different debate).

It's for the school to manage this and not the OP, but a twelve year old grows up into a 14 year old and then a 16 year old. The longer the secret is kept the worse the consequences both before and after it comes out. Either the truth will come out in some horrific way or it will come out quietly leaving the girls to re-evaluate however many years of "friendship" all based on a lie.

It’s not about ‘the contents of a child’s pants’ (grim phrase btw). Bring a boy is not just about having a willy. And the others are being asked to join in - to accept the boy in their changing room, sports team, as a ‘bff’, at sleepovers… in a way that they wouldn’t accept any other boy. But you know that, you just don’t think the girls matter.

In what way are the children being asked to 'join in' when they have no knowledge that this child is anything else than the girl they know her as? It's an excuse to out a 12 YEAR OLD that wouldnt wash anywhere else other than batshit mumsnet boards. We don't even know this child isn't biologically female, all OP has to go on is social media photos which i presume show a child dressed in 'male' clothes - i thought feminists rejected the idea that there are 'girl' and 'boy' clothes as part of the basis for the rejection of trans ideology or is that only when it suits a narrative? By the way, I'm a 'TERF' by definition but to argue we should be outing kids to their peers?? Who the hell are we??

My situation is in no way irrelevant - if you can make the argument that other kids should be told the contents of this childs' pants for their own wellbeing in case they form a friendship with them and then find out and are 'damaged' at the thought they've been lied to, then you could make the exact same argument about me.

I think we need to stop saying X "identifies as a boy/girl" and we just say "X is a boy but likes to be called a girl". There the truth of it. He's still male and always will be. All the identification is meaningless really. X can ask to be called a girl but he is inherently male.

This is a false equivalence.

No-ne is suggesting that this child's personal medical information is made public - just that lies are not told to the other children (or to him) about which sex he is.

You weren't "lying" to anyone - you were being private, and that is a different thing. The consequences of your condition becoming public would have hurt only you, and the consequences of remaining private was putting no-one else at risk, either physically or mentally.

Metabolic- but your situation is irrelevant- these children do NOT have a physical problem. They are simply children who, for a variety of complex reasons, wish to role-play as the opposite sex, and everyone else is expected to join in, regardless of consent, and without their knowledge.

As a child I had a physical health condition to do with my genitalia my peers were not informed of. It impacted the way I socialized and would have seen me become the subject of many conversations had it been communicated with other pupils at the school. If someone had chosen to get into a relationship with me, it would have impacted our relationship a lot. I was not trans. At no point did anyone ever suggest that by not broadcasting my personal health information, I was in any way 'lying' to my peers. It was kept a secret from other children in order to keep me safe.

You obsession with the contents of a 12 year olds underpants needs thoroughly scrutinizing OP, and no amount of made up 'but think of the CHILDREN' is hiding your obvious motivation here. Disgusting.

@OldCrone if you read my whole post I made an evidenced point about the 4000% increase in GIDS referrals.

I literally dropped the % and said 1 in 4000, my maths may be wrong but the fact that there is a 4000% increase means that it would have been rare for posters to have been at school with a classmate who openly identified as having GD.

Saying "The 4000% increase is interesting as it means historically there was 1 child with GD for every 4000 schools" suggested that it was more than just a random figure pulled out of the air.

But I'll accept that what you said wasn't what you meant to say and I'll leave this now as there obviously isn't more to it. I was just wondering what the source was for the 1 child in 4000 schools, but if there isn't one there's nothing more to discuss about this.

Yep. Surprised you haven't been reported for that tras love reporting facts

Yet "sex change" is what's being sold to children by transactivists. It's the mangling and neutralising language that's contributed to this getting so far. "Top surgery" instead of double mastectomies etc. So I prefer to use language that reflects the reality of what's being done to these children.

I agree that therapy & counselling for those thinking their sex is wrong is the appropriate response. But the history of GIDs shows us that this has been resisted with immediate affirmation being promoted by many of the the Mermaids / Gendered Intelligence influenced medics working there.

These are adult issues and not for children and young people still growing and maturing. Children have always found maturing - physically and mentally - to be challenging - the hormonal soup of adolescence etc. Yet we've allowed queer theorists / transactivists to persuade children that it's possible to navigate their way out of their sexed bodies by changing them.

That's unforgivable.