Transgenderism not a modish fad because: Jan Morris

I’ll post more later, but Melvyn is the Principal at Watson’s, my daughter’s former school. This article was a very distressing read for me this morning given our experience both with the school and him personally.

The "narrative" or rather the factual reality is that no men can be women, no matter what body mods they undertake, how "genuine" we believe them to be, how much we like them, how sorry we feel towards them, how vulnerable we believe them to be.

There can be no exceptions, and it's not possible to make them even if we wanted to.

In many countries there is such a thing as living "as a woman". It means repression in clothing and social role and status, and in many cases lack of control of one's life.

We don't mean that when we talk of living "as a woman" in the UK. We mean presentation and perhaps social expectation. It may be that some men want to opt out of the male presentation and social expectation. We should be supporting that. But it does not mean they are "living as women".

Because many women want to opt out of typical female presentation and social expectation too. It doesn't mean they are not women. Women can and should come together in solidarity when it is helpful due to the many issues we face because we are women.

But in the UK many of us women have fought against the idea of "living as women" for a long time. We are women living as people for whom sex is at times important and to be celebrated.

you know very well what I mean as living as a male

It's either doing literally anything while having a male body

Or

Conforming to masculine stereotypes or being perceived or judged against these stereotypes.

Which did you mean?

Because being unhappy to be judged against sex role stereotypes is extremely common and doesn't change what sex you are.

you can't campaign for single sex spaces and then say there's no such thing as living as a male.

Really? Have a think about that again.

Are people campaigning for single sex spaces for people who live as a sex, or people.who are a sex?

The former is the TRA argument - a single sex space for people who 'live as' one sex includes people who actually are both sexes. And is therefore not a single sex space.

Nobody here says all males who want to transition are AGP. Although it seems likely that all or nearly all heterosexual males who transition later in life are. We're not allowed to say that it's a fetish. Posts saying that get deleted pretty quickly. We don't know if they've felt like that since childhood. They always say they have though. A male without a penis is not in a different category, he's just a male without a penis.

you can't campaign for single sex spaces and then say there's no such thing as living as a male.

Single sex spaces are nothing to do with 'living as a male'. Single sex spaces are for people of one sex only. Nothing to do with the way they live. Unless you think that 'living as a male' means using men's spaces. So are you saying that a male who isn't comfortable living as male is uncomfortable simply because they want to use women's spaces?

There’s another thread at the moment where Debbie Hayton who is a transwoman who has had the surgery talks about having AGP so I don’t think it’s always as clear cut as having the surgery = not AGP.

sjngle sex spaces are just spaces for adult human males and adult human females

living as a male is just acting out the perception of what a woman believes male behaviour to be

What is the difference between living as a male and being a male?

I am a woman and I have no idea what living as a woman means. I just am a woman. And alive.

That all males who want to transition are AGP. That it's a fetish. That they havent felt that way since childhood. That most don't have surgery - obviously that is true, but I feel transwomen who do go that far are in a different category.

I probably agree with 99% of Terfism, but there's 1% of what I read here makes me uncomfortable. I can't quote twice, but the pp who says what do you mean by living as a male, you know very well what I mean as living as a male, you can't campaign for single sex spaces and then say there's no such thing as living as a male.

So let's embed the idea that internalised homophobia is OK because trans.

Let's embed it's irrational that girls be aware of male posed danger because trans.

Let's embed women to accept AGP's behaviour because trans.

Let's love the Curriculum for Excellence because trans is health & well being.

What do you mean by 'living as a male'? Surely anyone who is male is living as a male by definition.

“I often use the experience of Jan Morris, whose testimony about trans status, having gone up Everest as a man, had children as a man, married and been in the army, all the time feeling like a woman, means [trans issues] cannot be dismissed as a modish oddity.
“Once you have accepted that, you accept that in the population there will be children experiencing that, we have to try and understand that..."

So he thinks that a teenage girl who is anxious about her changing body is exactly the same as a middle-aged man (with a wife and children) who likes to pretend he's a woman? Has he ever actually stopped to think about what he's saying?

And what makes him think any rational person would accept that?

What is the 'MN narrative'?

Jan Morris was a bad example.

But, I have followed racing driver Charlie Morris long before trans was a hot topic, long before I read the feminist angle on MN. She (MtF) has has all the surgery, yet still competes in a male dominated sport, she is on the TRA bandwagon now I think, but for a long time was just someone battling for acceptance, who hadn't been comfortable living as male since childhood. It's people like her who I don't feel fit the MN narrative.

This.

Couldn't read any further than him commenting that curriculum for excellence is a good thing.

It's known as curriculum for excrement by many, many teachers and parents in Scotland.

So if he can't get that right...he can't get anything right!

I asked him a few years ago to explain 'feeling like a woman' without using clothing or gendered expectations such as make up
etc. he refused

"feeling like a woman": right, so not is,but feels like. Now,let's see him make a non circular argument, ideally nit based on stereotypes,on what the hell that means. And that's before we even get into why others physical safety should bend for your emotional perception. What an idiot.

Trans isn't a modish oddity, it's a manifestation of extreme misogyny. Of which J Morris was an exemplar.

Why do they keep making these straw men?

James Morris really isn't the gotcha the TRAs think he is.

He was associated with the 1953 Everest Expedition as a journalist, not a mountaineer. He wasn’t involved in any of the technical aspects of the expedition, and would not have been welcome on the icefall or at high altitude. He was a hanger on, there to write about the dramatic challenges of high altitude mountaineering and relay exciting stories to the public, and the big scoop was tying in the successful ascent with the Coronation.

Even Jan Morris knew he was a man, because he still made his wife do all the traditional women's work at home! Or perhaps that's just another example of how a man makes a better woman than a woman.

I've been to Everest Base Camp. it doesn't involve any 'mountain-climbing' as such. More like Snowdonia, except you have to be a bit careful about altitude sickness.

'The Man Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain'... Noooo.... That Everest imagery of James/Jan Morris is almost just TOO ripe for comedic opportunity 😂 Ffs...🤦🏼‍♀️ 🙄😂 What, now you're saying he only reached base camp? 😂😂😂 Jeez 😂😂😂 The gift that keeps on giving 😂 ✌🏾❣️