Thank you: Debbie Hayton in the Mail

I think that there are men who have been very let down by the medical profession on this. Not helped to find any clarity on their internal processes, and encouraged to take very serious medical steps. And really given no help to try and control or lessen their sexual compulsions.

It would be difficult to go back, I think, once you'd gone so far as the genital surgery.

Surely to god he can't think that he is in anyway a decent person just because he admits to involving school kids in propping up his fetish?

how the hell is he still in teaching when he freely admits he is aroused by being perceived as a woman?

Honestly, it might work. The first definition or explanation you read/encounter of a phenomenon, be it AGP or atomic shells, tends to stick.

Ask any A-level physics pupil doggedly trying to unlearn the simplifications taught at GCSE!

DH is responding to trans widows. If women like Tinsel hadn't managed to speak out at all, I doubt DH would be mentioning the condition.

This.

And if he can rebrand it, leave out all the bad bit and spin the rest, he controls it.

Unfortunately for him, people are not that stupid. Or inexperienced. AGP is no-where near as rare as he says it is.

Frankly I think it takes a colossal ego to imagine that you can spin AGP for any length of time.

SS of JKJ's tweet/X???! Mentioned up thread
Other SS to provide contrast to the DM clothing choices

Stephanie is not a loquacious interviewee but what she does say is very significant and I suspect the facts would horrify us if she were inclined to provide more detail on how Hayton treated/treats his family.

Stephanie is always putting her children and even her husband before herself; she deserves better than being shackled to a marriage that isn’t in any way recognisable as what she signed up to. In every photo it looks like her energy is being siphoned from her by her husband.

Hayton may be desperate for companionship but I don’t think he’s doing his family, or his wife, any favours by keeping her in this stasis.

100% the Transwidows threads were eye opening and reading those mail extracts he follows the pattern down to the over spending on make-up and other trappings of femininity

heathspeedwell
She appears to believe that she had to explain to him why some clothing is more suited to going out than to wearing to work at a school. She had to explain to him why it's inappropriate to sit with his legs apart while wearing a skirt.

Agreed, a male teacher of teenage girls will be very well aware what is appropriate and inappropriate clothing for school..

I suspect he was pushing hers and the schools boundaries again

Debbie teaches physics at a Bristol secondary school; Stephanie — who also used to teach physics — now works for the Church of England overseeing training of the laity in her diocese. Both she and Debbie are church-going Christians.

I think the wrong one left teaching. Dr Stephanie must have been such an inspiration to female students.

I do think it’s significant that DH has splashed (his version of) his story in the Daily Mail. It may even be helpful to an extent in informing people who have not read all about it here or anywhere else; but it’s also unhelpful because it’s not immediately obvious where he is holding back from complete honesty, and some of what he says is misleading. However, the comments below this third instalment show that quite a lot of people are spotting how badly he has treated his family, and that he still hasn’t rowed back completely. If this helps people to be wary of husbands’ and fathers’ motives for transition, that’s a good thing. Clearly some people in their church saw his behaviour for what it did to his family, and others excused him.

KJK took a screenshot of the same passage in the DM article and responded in her inimitable way. Suffice it to say, she is incredulous at the idea that "the tall woman with the grey hair" could be considered the most effective description.

<waves to KJK>

Strewth

Amen. 👏

Exactly.

DH is responding to trans widows. If women like Tinsel hadn't managed to speak out at all, I doubt DH would be mentioning the condition.

H realises it is better to partially acknowledge AGP and describe it in DH's own fashion, than to pretend it doesn't exist.

The BTLers on the DM are sick of him already. It's like seeing this thread in miniature.

Favourite comment:

"Gender reassignment almost destroyed 30-year marriage." Shocked...I'm telling you, shocked! Smh.

It's really quite remarkable that anyone could possibly think that the women of mumsnet, who have set up these websites, been consulted across the board on their expertise, and helped turn FWR into a place of knowledge and fierce activism, should be thanking Debbie Hayton for any of it!

Strewth.

I can't get over the idea that we should be grateful to our abusers for supposedly enabling us to talk about their abuse.

Hayton says if he could turn back the clock, he would never have transitioned?

Good Lord. All he has to do, literally, is stop wearing women's clothes.

No one will know he's had surgery.

Job done.

Well at least we've got permission from him now to say 'the male transexual by the bookcase' 😊

KJK questioned whether it would be necessary to describe hayton as 'the women by the bookcase' to ensure anyone knew who he was.

Hayton has helped shift the Overton window that bit further. MN was pretty brave to allow debate back in the day, but had to control it to keep the monitors at bay. A discussion of AGP was completely off limits.

It's not Hayton who is shifting the Overton Window! And he's not talking about AGP. He's made up some kind of hybrid condition that makes him the hero of his own narrative.

The Transwidows and 'children of transitioners' have done more to show the reality of AGP than Hayton, ffs.

We know all the patterns - the binging and purging, the relentless narcissism, the selfishness, the lies, the hopeless porn consumption, the complete neglect of children, the mirroring of wives' appearance, the haemorrhaging of money, etc, from the women who tell us the truth.

Not the man whose own wife describes him as a 44 year old unmanageable teenager.

And no, AGP is not off limits. i've posted reams about it on here. You're not allowed to accuse anyone of it, that's all.

i've quoted Andrea Long Chu, Jacob Tobia, Julia Serano, Grace Lavery. All authors about AGP and all of them more than happy to confess their misogyny to anyone who listens. Although, of course, they weren't trying to sell their books to Daily Mail readers.

It's really quite remarkable that anyone could possibly think that the women of mumsnet, who have set up these websites, been consulted across the board on their expertise, and helped turn FWR into a place of knowledge and fierce activism, should be thanking Debbie Hayton for any of it!

Strewth.

I can't read it on X (no account and it needs one with age verification) and nitter won't work for me. Would you paraphrase, please?

Part 3 - people not happy in the comments.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13016871/beautiful-wife-sleep-separate-beds-losing-relationship.html#article-13016871

I think KJK saw this post.

https://twitter.com/ThePosieParker/status/1752043651352363088

DH's truths in last week's article were there to disguise the taste of some personal perceptions, let us say.

One place where I can detransition is the internet. There I can be she or he, Debbie or David. But why make life more difficult and store up issues when the online world crosses over into real life?

Picture the scene: a stranger is trying to find me in a crowded room. Without knowing who I am, they ask for directions from a mutual friend. ‘I’m looking for Debbie Hayton.’

‘Ah, Debbie!’ comes the reply. ‘He is the tall man with the grey hair by the bookcase.’

My friend’s response might have been scientifically accurate, but it would probably not have been much use.

Of course, they could have been told: ‘You see the person over by the bookcase with the grey hair who could be taken for a woman? That’s Debbie.’ But how realistic is that every time I’m pointed out in a crowd?

The simplest reply is, of course, what generally happens: ‘She’s the tall woman with the grey hair…’

Integrity matters — I am just one person and the same person in all contexts, a male transsexual.

I have seen videos of Hayton, and I also know lots of men with long hair. It would be a perfectly practical description. Why is DH saying such a description would be useless, and what would DH gain from making readers think so?

In fact I think it's us (Trans Widows) who have shifted the Overton window about AGP in general. Not bloody Hayton.

7 years of running a support thread and campaigning and he gets the credit? Fuck that.

Not true that a discussion of AGP was off limits here. I've been discussing it for years, I've just had to do it carefully. It's Trans Widows that have brought AGP to the fore on MN. I'm sure as hell not going to thank Hayton for it.