Thank you: Debbie Hayton in the Mail

Trans Ideology - a real life debate | Mumsnet

Don't look at the images if you don't have a strong stomach.

Reading about Debbie's mistakes about wearing completely inappropriate and sexualised clothing reminded me of Freda Wallis and the innocent mistake they made when accidentally flashing their privates while having a debate about men who transition and how womanly they are.

to me it is plain as the nose on my face that persons with gender dysphoria, thinking they are in the wrong bodies are experiencing a mental health issue.

Just as individuals with anorexia, or think their arm does not belong to them are not well simples….

That doesn't seem to be uncommon. Quite a few of these men seem to transition right when they have teenage daughters.

I wonder if it's envy?

@Needmoresleep thank you for sharing the second Mail article.

In my opinion it clearly shows the level of gaslighting that he is subjecting his wife to.

She appears to believe that she had to explain to him why some clothing is more suited to going out than to wearing to work at a school. She had to explain to him why it's inappropriate to sit with his legs apart while wearing a skirt. (Funny how many middle-aged men who identify as trans seem to do this while being seen in public or on their social media profiles. Yet zero women ever do this. It's a huge mystery how otherwise intelligent men in their 40s and above could get this so wrong).

It's almost like his behaviour is driven by a sexual fetish.

Not all trans people are AGP

True. There’s the AGP cross dressers; there’s the gay contingent who have no attraction to women or their clothing; then there are the vulnerable group of gender dysphoric young people who may be variously - on the spectrum; suffering from mental illness - including anxiety, depression, eating disorders esp anorexia, history of trauma and/or abuse; gay- some of whom feel pressured by homophobia to align their gender to their sexual orientation.

Within the AGP group there can be a fetish to cross dress with no desire to transition, with some the desire to transition is the solely fulfilment of the sexual fantasy, with others it can be combined with gender dysphoria real or imagined (ie culturally/socially mediated), and/or mental health issues. Imo obviously.

Not exactly although that too. I noticed Hayton went for sensible clothing for the Daily Mail photographer not the short teenager summer dresses he often wears to feminist events

I’ve pmed you @Cailin66

@Cailin66 Over-revealing clothing, except when he feels he can’t get away with it? That’s my guess.

Yes, and that seems immensely cruel.

Also, at the point when Stephanie asked Debbie to leave & he first agreed then changed his mind, their daughter was coming up to her GCSEs. So one more bit of pressure on her to keep things calm.

Gawd, that's only too plausible.

I'm assuming it's the boundary pushing? And that's all part of it. You can't push boundaries if you haven't allowed any to be created.

When you see it written out like that in a list, it seems almost like boundaries have been created in order to be breached.

Why not come out with it all at once? Why the years-long dripfeed? Why the insistence on breaking every promise made, one by one? Why the need to drag the family into the 'story'?

It's as much of a scripted pattern as the Other Woman script.

Suzie's rocking slowly through much of this from their 'bloke in a dress' and 'I'm a male lesbian' starting point.

Sex addiction. Combined with a midlife crisis it's horrible to watch what it does to a person.

A film of his life?

As a women still learning, could someone explain this to me, by PM if necessary:

There’s an aspect of Hayton’s current appearance that screams AGP that he shares with many TW

I've skimmed the daily mail article.

If anyone is in any doubt about how a characteristic of this fetish is escalation, he says this:

He first told Stephanie that he'd cross dressed only once or twice before and he'd never do it again. She had no idea it was a current thing.

Then he said he wanted to transition but he wouldn't.

And then he said if only he could grow his hair long.

Then he said he was actually going to transition.

Then he said he'll wait until after the kids have left.

But then he transitioned three months after they told the children.

Then he promised he'd keep it private.

Then he flouted his promise and told everyone.

And he says how liberated he was by telling her all this.

Then he told the whole world he gets turned on by wearing women's clothing, and has had surgery.

Now he's written a book about it all.

One wonders where the escalation will go to next? I mean, what's left?

@Datun don't blame anybody for not wanting to read it.

Will be sure to let you all know my thoughts, and maybe seek advice from you lot.

Would like to see his families own experiences expressed

I will find out…

Trans feels a mixture of AGP individuals, social contagion in young people on the spectrum and mental illness with a growing group of perverts who just want to access women's spaces and see this as in way in.

Women are shoved aside by many attempting to enable this mixed group of reasons and had been largely ignored. Now real biological women are expressing concerns in growing numbers.

Yet they still don't.

Well not yet. It's a gamble on his part, reliant on the rest of us continuing to be nice.

He's really bringing out my inner Mary Whitehouse!

No idea. If you're going to buy it, perhaps you can let us know. But I guarantee it will be subject to a lot of spin.

Datum i wonder what his book will say about that. I think he kinda covered it in the exerts, but not sure …

I don't feel sad or impressed for DH.

The link to trans children resource was informative, from a very important perspective.

Agree most desirable outcome is that fetishes are not on public display whatever they are, but the one we are discussing are using GI as the cloak to hide in.

I would love to see his employers ask him to dress in a suit, because they don't want him practising his sexual fetish in front of the children.

I realise, that after all the campaigning, it's really quite difficult to ask certain men not to wear women's clothes as a fetish. Giving cross dressers civil rights has been a massive coup.

But Debbie, surely must be different. Debbie has told everyone. He's entirely upfront about it.

Yet they still don't.