4 year old boy started primary school as a girl...

I’m embarrassed for people that come in here to scold us and use intersex like it’s some kind of gotcha. 1 intersex is an outdated term, correct term is DSD disorder or difference of sexual development 2. people with DSD are still either male or female and 3. People with DSD have asked many many times not to have their medical condition weaponised by TRA

Or maybe they are confused children - and I include Bobby in this - struggling to make sense of a world where they are being gaslighted and lied to by the adults who they rely upon for stability and trust.

We are failing all the children by going along with this rhetoric.

Absolutely

Which is the reason why I'm concerned about his behaviour, now, at that age, within the contexts of toilets and what he's been led to believe about his rights to girls' toilets.

In one school I was at we were delivering sex Ed to Year 4. It's usually year 5 but obviously in y4 the single sex changing rules come into play. Many schools start swimming lessons in y4 with another round in y5 as y6 is sats.

Bloody hell that statement from the archbishop is something else. Makes me wonder if it was deliberately so stark. How could you write or read that and not think - "hang on a minute.."

Most of the problems (Bobby told them there are ghosts in the toilets, Bobby hits them, they don't like Bobby because they don't like boys) are nothing to do with transness, they're normal mixed primary school problems being sensationalised to make people think a fucking four year old is abusive.

Or maybe they are confused children - and I include Bobby in this - struggling to make sense of a world where they are being gaslighted and lied to by the adults who they rely upon for stability and trust.

We are failing all the children by going along with this rhetoric.

Agree 100%.

It means - obviously- that if you think girls who've been sold a lie since reception are just going to hear:

"All they have to say is oh sorry Zoe, I didn't realise that Bobby is a boy. Some boys think they're girls. They're wrong, that's what your dad and I think. We didn't know, adults make mistakes too sometimes, but we'll never intentionally lie to you"

And they'll carry on unaffected then you don't know girls this age. Or the bonds they make. Or the sense of devastation they feel when a friendship breaks down through things like lies.

And according to the article, adults did actively lie to children. It's an abomination and the Church has some serious explaining to do. Hopefully before a Select Committee and hopefully very soon. Including how the hell they put a boy on the school roll as a girl when that contravenes the law. You have to be enrolled according to your birth certificate. So there falsifying records too, which I want the Church to explain.

There's some confusion on this thread about the age of the child, as the title says "4 years old" - refers to when they started school.
They are now in year 4. So aged 8/9?

What does this mean?

the parents interviewed saying their child has been robbed of her childhood, seriously what are they on about.

Plainly you don't know any year 3 girls. Good.

Sure, the parent who knew was being a right weirdo not telling her own kids. But the parents interviewed saying their child has been robbed of her childhood, seriously what are they on about. All they have to say is oh sorry Zoe, I didn't realise that Bobby is a boy. Some boys think they're girls. They're wrong, that's what your dad and I think. We didn't know, adults make mistakes too sometimes, but we'll never intentionally lie to you.

Most of the problems (Bobby told them there are ghosts in the toilets, Bobby hits them, they don't like Bobby because they don't like boys) are nothing to do with transness, they're normal mixed primary school problems being sensationalised to make people think a fucking four year old is abusive. We are failing all the children by going along with this rhetoric.

My own 4 year old thinks he's an astronaut and will tell everyone this, is he an abusive liar too?

I imagine not, as presumably there isn't a phalanx of adults around him trying to enforce the role play on everyone else. Or is there?

Children at those sorts of ages 4-7 need to learn the difference between play and reality. Compelling children to treat play as reality would be abusive.

He is year 4, so now 7/8

He's 4, he's not an "abusive liar". My own 4 year old thinks he's an astronaut and will tell everyone this, is he an abusive liar too?

Can you please explain what you mean by intersex? Thanks.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean please?

Perhaps it's not so much that the girl doesn't want to be friends with a boy as she doesn't want to be friends with an abusive liar?

What a depressing story for all those children. The C of E's "guidance" for schools demonstrates a wilful disregard for children's safety that openly dismantles safeguarding protection for children.

"The protected characteristic of gender reassignment only works one way – not being transgender is not a protected characteristic....Consequently schools can make adjustments to meet the needs of a trans pupil without being accused of discriminating against non-trans pupils".

In the light of the grim history that C of E has for failing to safeguard children with allegations and disputes continuing to this day, it's reasonable to ask precisely who contributed to and signed off on those guidelines?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63144354

Is it a coincidence that they recently sacked their Safeguarding Board ?(apologies for the Guardian link) :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/09/safeguarding-crisis-church-of-england-archbishop-of-york

This is on point. Great post

There is another thread about Debbie Hayton’s article and book.

In the article DH states they now realise they have always actually had a paraphillia,”Malaga Airport” so I’m not deleted.

I believe paraphillia’s are behind a lot of the GI belief and the aim to remove the barriers protecting women and girls.

These include exhibitionism and voyeurism. According to the article this 4 year old is displaying signs of exhibitionism. Yes they are only 4 but we teach children about privacy, the pants rule etc. because we are not born knowing societies rules.

By 4 most children have been taught the pants rule. The urge to show his penis is stronger than his peers, is sexual abuse a factor or exhibitionism?

That'll learn us.😂

Young children can have very close intense relationships. That are extremely foundational to how they move forward in their relationships for the rest of their lives.

And for some it really does matter if the child they're close to is a boy or a girl; a friend often comments that she absolutely detested boys when she was a girl and doesn't understand how her daughter is so close to some male peers.

That level of deep emotional betrayal is very damaging.

And it's also taught the boy to deceive and lie and that adults will help him, rather than the firm boundaries he needed.

I couldn’t agree with you more especially your final statement.

Let children play. Let children have a childhood.

In these cases, it is ALL about the parents and THEIR motives and fucked-upness.

It reminds me of South Park when Cartman sees a boy with tourrettes

It is emotional abuse of both the boy and the girls.

By the adults who are supposed to protect them.

Child abuse. Plain and simple.

When I think of my four boys, now strapping rugby playing, gym going, girl obsessed teens, in their nursery and reception classes at 4 - loving the dress up corner, wearing tutus and dressing up as witches and wizards, playing house and mummies and daddies, all the imagination and explorations in the home corner, being cats, being dogs, being princesses, 'I'll be the mummy today' etc etc - my heart breaks for this boy that has had his natural development destroyed by deluded and abusive, self obsessed adults.