4 year old boy started primary school as a girl...

Given the girls are seeing the genitals in question, I’m going to say that it does matter.

Regardless, the idea of a four year old with a trans gender identity is developmentally nonsensical. No one should be entertaining this rubbish.

In the case of this child, we know exactly what genitals they have. It's in the OP.

Now in year 4 is 'flashing their willy' at the girls.

I don't know how I can expand on it not being your business on what genitals a 4 year old has?

I'd still have a son and daughter from that test ...just the opposite way round! Some people really don't have any idea about normal child development.

It makes my blood boil at the lies being told to children, by the caregivers who should have their (the children) best interests at heart.

Children have magical thinking. My DD (7) still believes that Santa can make the built in fireplace open, that the tooth fairy collects her teeth and that unicorns might actually exist.

My DS (3) absolutely knows that Mummy is magical, as she can make a pudding from completely nothing! He also likes prams, trucks, running about screaming and cuddling up. He also calls everyone a "he"

If you tell a child they can change their sex, their magical thinking it'll mean that they truly believe it. When you are really selling them a life of medical dependency, with a very real chance that it will be cut short (increased risk of heart problems/strokes on wrong-sex hormones, the implications of a pre-term menopause on bone density). And if not, the risk of living a life dealing with scar tissue, potential surgical complications.

For what? In adulthood, to be a pale imitation of the opposite sex, that in the very vast majority of situation fools no-one.

How have we, as a society gone so backwards, as to stick so rigidly now to these harmful gendered stereotypes?

Edit for typo.

Arf. No.

I was taking the piss. But things have gone so bloody ridiculous that it obviously sounded like it might actually be. 😫

'Dollies vs Trucks test during the preschool screening'

Is this an actual thing?

My heart breaks for these kids. My boys have all been through toddler phases of wearing dresses or wanting to push prams. One used to ask me to put his hair in bunches. It was just playful and fun and uncomplicated. I didn't discourage any of it because the feminist in me wanted the boys to know that men can do child rearing and care about their appearence and dress up. And i beleive in learning through play. We never threw enormous life changing choices at them by asking if they wanted to live as a girl.

I think of how small and innocent they were at 4 and the enormity of starting school, moving house etc. I cannot believe 4 year olds are being asked to consider their gender at this age. It makes me so angry. Children see everything in black and white. They should be able to trust adults...I'm just so upset everytime I read these articles. And it somehow makes it worse that society mistakenly believes its acting in the childs interest.

I wonder how much involvement/influence Debbie Hayton had on the CoE’s guidance

For years my niece wanted to be a boy, often wanted to be called by a boys name. None of us took it too seriously, would play along a bit every now and then. It all stopped once she got to secondary age and was never mentioned again. It was just a long phase that she went through because she was surrounded by boys (two slightly older brothers and 3 male cousins) and wanted to be the same as them.

The Times have picked up the story

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boy-4-allowed-to-join-church-of-england-school-as-a-girl-nrdftc3j7

https://archive.ph/Xyoi7

Not being transgender means the protected characteristic of sex (and/or belief) is relevant in carrying out an assessment. The girls have rights too.

This school is clueless and obviously not considering the needs of all its pupils.

Gendered Intelligence - is there an oxymoron in there somewhere? Or just a moron??

These people will be drawing up lists of gender neutral names parents are obliged to pick from because no one is allowed to assume the child is a boy or a girl until they’ve been classified using the Dollies vs Trucks test during the preschool screening. 🙄🙄

Dangerous idiots.

His parents need to be investigated by social services

Do you actually understand what the now outdated term “intersex” means? I imagine you will soon, otherwise a bit of Googling might help.

If it’s the same guy that I started listening to then Gendered Intelligence

I had to turn off, too much

No! And he’s being properly interviewed as some kind of authority (missed where from), not a member of the public phoning in. He also says children need to be asked about their sexuality

The concept of gender reassignment for young children is dangerously nonsensical.

It is. Child transsexuals. It's absurd.

He’s taking the piss - surely?

Adults are culpable in all this.

From the initial law makers to the activists, institutions and media

It is patently - and developmentally - absurd to be transing a 4 year old starting reception. The parents and the school are unbelievably irresponsible.

The concept of gender reassignment for young children is dangerously nonsensical.

LBC doing a phone/text in on this now. Some bloke being interviewed saying kids should be asked if they’re trans from day 1 and nobody should assume they’re ‘cis’ 🤔

"I think schools have been desperate for guidance, and people with an agenda of 'trans inclusion is the most important thing in the whole world' have stepped into the void. The results are an appalling mess, as this dreadful story illustrates. Those poor children, all of them, but particularly the girls".

Agreed* *@worrieddragon . Sadly it's evident that a lot of people with a personal investment in young children transitioning have been allowed to influence policy on this. The are people who should be nowhere near decisions about children as their personal demands / beliefs drown out the need to protect children from age inappropriate, psychologically damaging issues.

I looked up that barmy-sounding quote in the CofE schools guidance document Valuing all God's Children. The document is 50 pages long, mostly focused on bullying and doesn't give a lot of guidance on practical decisions like 'which loo'.

The quote:
"The protected characteristic of gender reassignment only works one way – not being transgender is not a protected characteristic. Consequently schools can make adjustments to meet the needs of a trans pupil without being accused of discriminating against non-trans pupils"

As a pp pointed out this isn't wrong: the PC of disability works in the same way. However the next thing to point out ought to be that of course schools ARE under the Public Sector Equality Duty to foster good relations between people with a protected characteristic and those without, and crucially, other people have other protected characteristics which also have to be taken into account. This is absent.

The quote is referenced to The Intercom Trust, Schools Transgender Guidance (2015), p. 12.

There's no sign of this document on the Intercom Trust website. However, this looks to be the same document, adopted at some point by Torbay safeguarding board.

This document draws the parallel with disability, and goes on to reference the PSED, though it doesn't draw out any implications, nor point out that 'special steps' might affect the rights of people with other protected characteristics, such as sex. (ie everyone).

"Unlike most of the protected characteristics, such as sex, race and religion, but like disability, this protection works in one direction only – not being transgendered is not a protected characteristic. Schools are therefore free to take special steps to meet the needs of Trans pupils without being accused of discriminating against pupils who are not Trans."

Interestingly, the Intercom Trust guidance is much less crazy than some later school 'trans toolkits' from advocacy organisations eg acknowledging some of the challenges of including boys in girls' sport rather than just suggesting that anyone who objects must be sent for reeducation or excluded.

I think schools have been desperate for guidance, and people with an agenda of 'trans inclusion is the most important thing in the whole world' have stepped into the void. The results are an appalling mess, as this dreadful story illustrates. Those poor children, all of them, but particularly the girls.