Non Binary Teachers

How does the term ‘Mx’ undermine sex based safeguarding?

By itself, it doesn’t.
But it is the compulsion of use and punishment for mistakes, the flags, the posters, the talking inappropriately about your relationships, and shoe horning gender ideology into every lesson that is the problem.

@pronounsbundlebundle I think you are trying to twist the issue to make it fit into ‘safeguarding’ because it’s something you are uncomfortable with.

So do you disagree with @pronounsbundlebundle 's point that children are being effectively 'gaslit'? That they are being told by people in authority over them, who are in loco parentis, that the truth the children can clearly perceive with their eyes and ears is actually not true? And you can't see any reason why lying to children about this kind of thing might have implications for safeguarding?

We're not just talking about the ability to report abuse once it happens. We're talking about fostering a culture where children are able to trust what they are being told about the adults looking after them, and feel confident about talking about things that make them uncomfortable, without worrying that they will get in trouble for saying the wrong thing or calling someone the wrong thing.

Not if the beliefs which under-pin their title are not in question, no. But gender ideology is not one of those types of situation. There is an element compulsion in getting people, who know better, to use pronouns that don't concur with observed reality - for the reason that trans identities are wholly socially constructed and rely on other people to validate them. They do not exist outside of this validation.

One can be polite and courteous without having to go along with pronouns. It is a wilful and narcissitic imposition, in my view, on the part of those that insist on them and that itself is not respectful.

You can start with "cis", or "transphobe".

@pronounsbundlebundle if any school I worked in sanctioned a SEN child because they called a non binary teacher the wrong pronoun, I would be out there protesting with the rest of you. And I imagine it would be on the front page of the Daily Mail.

Interestingly, I tried to find out what would happen if a child refused to use the Mx name. The latest guidance says that teachers are not obliged to use gender neutral pronouns for children who request it, but they should find another way, such as always referring to them as their name. So I imagine it would be the same for the students. We did once have a supply teacher who asked students to call them ‘Teacher’ , not ‘sir’ or ‘miss’.

give me an example of what a TRA has not addressed someone correctly

Teaching children that they must pretend not to recognize the sex of a person in authority is clearly not in the interests of children's safety or well-being. The idea that knowing that someone is male or female, or that talking about that fact is shameful or a secret is surely obviously harmful.

Yes, the younger generation - those still in school, are generally very sceptical; in fact at my daughter's school ( she's a teacher) they laugh and joke about " getting cancelled".

So its rude and disrespectful to label people in a way that they do not wish to be labeled yet TRAs, etc. do this all the time.

Why is this just a one way street?

It's also disability discrimination against the SEND kids.

Why does the adult's wants override the child's right to use their own words?

It's abusing the English language too. Children learn language based on rules and this upends the rules which can have significant disruption on education.

If you're going to have individual pronouns then that's the same as names and it would be better to get rid of pronouns altogether.

It’s not an agenda - you need to learn to be respectful and address people how they would like too.
Yes I understand that some kids would find it hard to be remember but there will be some who get it wrong deliberately to be rude, mean or just because they don’t think it’s right.
you can disagree with someone but it costs so little to your life to address someone how they want to be addressed

@pronounsbundlebundle I think you are trying to twist the issue to make it fit into ‘safeguarding’ because it’s something you are uncomfortable with.

Just say “I don’t think a person can change sex” and that’s fine, I get it. But to somehow make out that by calling someone a different pronoun a child won’t be able to report abuse by that person? Or that it will damage their neurological development (as a PP tried to argue) is really stretching your argument to the limit.

It's saying to chldren 'you might perceive this adult as a man but in fact he's a woman (or nonbinary) - you're wrong - your eyes and ears are wrong and this adult is right and if you don't go along with it you're a terrible person / will get sanctioned / are not kind'.

Can those defending this not see the safeguarding issues with this?

It is because it sends the strong message to the child that their perceptions matter less than the adult who is demanding the different pronouns.

How can they disclose abuse if they are confused about the sex of their abuser? It makes it much less likely.

Especially if the abuser tells them they're a bigot if they disclose and they've already experienced adults undermining their perceptions and telling them they have to blindly follow what an adult says even if it feels completely wrong and is about something as fundamental as easily observable binary sex in adults.

A reminder of what a pp said on this thread:
My DC have had a male NB teacher who was absolutely militant about the Mx. No ifs, buts, excuses. I've never met them, but apparently clearly male, dresses in formal male teacher attire, etc etc but if a child slips up and says "sir" they are pulled up on it immediately.
Regardless of their teaching ability, it puts stress on the DC. A child of a friend became really anxious about making a mistake unintentionally and wanted to avoid school. Find me a teacher who hasn't been called 'Mum' etc and they've just ignored it and moved on.

That's an adult creating a hostile learning environment for children to suit his own ideological agenda. In a classroom, scared of making a mistake because children are being asked to deny the evidence in front of them. My guess is that some posters on this thread have never parented an anxious child, a child with SEN, a child with English as their second language or a bullied child.

Adults like this NB teacher are prioritising their own luxury belief over the rights and needs of children to learn in a safe and welcoming environment. That's unforgivable.

Would you call someone ‘Dr’ who hadn’t been awarded a PhD, but wanted to be referred to as ‘Dr’ anyway?

GreenYoshi12
They don’t believe that they align with their sex/gender so they choose not to do that.

And yet this sentence highlight the problem. They are the sex that they are, gender is a construct. If you are conflating the two then you are wrong.

My point is, your knee-jerk approach on an anonymous internet board is to try and exert an appeal to authority and shut down discussion. Rather than chatting with people. It's a worrying sign, in my opinion, especially in someone who is responsible for educating children. Smacks of authoritarianism.

So someone says their child was rude about a teacher. You honestly think that merits 'reporting'?

I call people whatever they want to be called as it is respectful to do that imo
How does the term ‘Mx’ undermine sex based safeguarding? It’s not as if they’re pushing themselves into women’s toilets is it? They don’t believe that they align with their sex/gender so they choose not to do that.

And 'Dr' doesn't undermine sex based safeguarding for children

I don’t think ‘Mx’ does? I don’t believe that calling a teacher a gender-neutral name is a safeguarding issue. Otherwise it wouldn’t be permitted by the DSL at our school.

Do you call people Dr who simply identify as having a PhD or a medical degree? Just because they want to be called Dr?

And 'Dr' doesn't undermine sex based safeguarding for children.

They’re only told to do it as it’s disrespectful not too - the world won’t implode because you call someone Mx.

And where are these schools putting children in detention for refusing to call someone Mx?

He can't compel you to call him that though, in the way a school can compel children. It's a choice you make to use a title you consider respectful. He can't put you in detention if you don't do it.