Non Binary Teachers

Plus, at what point does using a title that is generally conferred on a religious person by others of that faith become cultural appropriation? If I say 'peace be upon him' after I say 'Mohammed', is that not actually mouthing words that I'm not really entitled to say? I've never been quite clear if it's more polite to share in saying prayers to a god I don't believe in, or to refrain from doing so.

But this is in the setting of attending a church service, of course.

A non-denom school should not have these issues coming up. Teachers are not priests or religious leaders.

I trained and started my career when section 28 was in existence, and no it's nothing like that.

I grew up in the 90s and I beg to differ. All of the rhetoric: “it’s not natural! It’s dangerous! Children will be brainwashed!” is exactly the same. And I’m not alone in thinking that, just Google it. Plenty of mainstream media articles saying the same thing. It has all been done before.

Rather than gnashing teeth and wailing about biology your time would be better served discussing ways to reconcile women’s rights with trans/NB rights. Denying it won’t stop it happening.

Leaving this thread now, I’ve wasted far too much of my sick days on it!

Something innocent like a yellow bobble hat?

I trained and started my career when section 28 was in existence, and no it's nothing like that.

Those of us who were at senior school during section 28 - nah it’s nothing like that at all.

"It is exactly like Section 28. The reason you don’t want children to be taught about it is you think they will think ‘ooh that sounds like a good idea, maybe I don’t feel like a girl either’. Just like in the 90s people thought their children might ‘catch’ gay."

Actually, it is well known that a large part of this ideology involves a degree of social contagion. It's not like being gay at ALL, as that is an innate part of someone and isn't influenced by other people being gay.
The trans trend pulls in people who are maybe struggling with their identity because of autism or other spectrum disorders. Being constantly exposed to the ideology on social media is something new too, because it wasn't a "thing" back in the day.

And if you don't think social contagion is true, have a look at the MANY reports of this from "formerly" trans people (mainly teens) online who bitterly regret ever getting caught up in the trans movement and who now realise their problems were not because they were trans, but because they were desperately trying to be anyone other than they were.

It also explains the massive rise in people identifying as trans, far beyond what one would expect. There are 4 trans children in my daughters very small year group. Three of them are have other problems.

I firmly believe, as do many others, that there IS a very real element of social contagion.

@Coffee473 double-devil's advocate, I suppose:

Some of my family are/were catholic, too. But I'll not call those people 'father', or 'sister'. I have sisters and brothers. My mother and father are dead. How dare those religious child-abusers arrogate to themselves the titles that rightly belong in my mouth uniquely to my family?

I'd offer to do it in widget but I don't want to even think what that symbol would be

I still am missing Malaga airport from my sticky vocab, we need to update the FWR knowledge organiser.

With "I believe" being the key.

What do they believe? That mastectomies are part of the NB belief?

That's my concern.

So for the younger kids, there's a good amount of questioning of stereotyping, lessons that boys/girls can do/be anything they want, wear what they want/hair how they want etc.

And then suddenly about age 9 or 10 we start to see nonsense like 'everyone's different; not all girls will have periods!' and the suggestion that some people who are gender non conforming are somehow a special type of person whose sex can magically change.

This is the belief recruitment playbook in a nutshell. It's the same pattern every time. If you read the children's book "Alienation" they manage to write it all out in one place. Normally it's served up in piecemeal so that those being recruited don't realise what's happening.

It falls within the school's responsibility, under statutory DfE guidance, to help children to understand that there are different types of sexual orientation (same sex and/or opposite sex) and that all are perfectly normal. This doesn't mean that teachers should be readily talking about their own private lives. But just as it would be perfectly normal for children to find out that their teacher has a family (the teacher may mention having been somewhere with their children for example), it should be equally normal for children to find out that their teacher has a same-sex partner. They don't need to know any more than that and it would cross the line completely for a teacher to share their personal experience of their journey of discovering their own sexual orientation.
Unfortunately the statutory guidance is currently conflated with teaching children about gender identity. Hopefully this will be decoupled when the new PHSE/RSE guidance comes out. It would be OK to acknowledge it as a belief (in RE perhaps) but it would need to be taught very carefully so as not to co-opt anyone in to the belief.

It's very interesting/jarring to see mainstream beliefs come up against genderism.

As all our curriculum RSHP resources are online in Scotland, you can see it very starkly.

So for the younger kids, there's a good amount of questioning of stereotyping, lessons that boys/girls can do/be anything they want, wear what they want/hair how they want etc.

And then suddenly about age 9 or 10 we start to see nonsense like 'everyone's different; not all girls will have periods!' and the suggestion that some people who are gender non conforming are somehow a special type of person whose sex can magically change.

This.

With "I believe" being the key.

However, the caveat to all of this is recognising the impact on neurodiverse and other vulnerable children who will hear a belief as a truth. Unfortunately, I don't think the majority of the people who believe that we all have a gender identity recognise that it's a belief.

There seem to be 3 main groups of "gender identity believers", as a general principle from what I can see:

1. The "reject the gender binary"/whisker away from being "GC" type. The main difference being that non-binary identified people have essentially opted out of their sex class, whereas GC people recognise the reality of sex and fight for equality from within rather than without. The activists in this group create safeguarding risks because they encourage children to ignore their instincts about sex-based differences.
2. Opposite sex believers who fully believe that they have an inner soul/essence that "aligns" with the opposite sex. Many will be neurodiverse and/or beginning to develop a same-sex attraction. There are some Malaga Airport types in this group, most likely neurodiverse and/or same-sex attracted. The activists in this group seem to be mainly driven by a genuine fear... which has been whipped up by...
3. Malaga Airport types who fake a belief and narcissistically perform. The activists from this group are the most dangerous. They pull levers in strategic places, befriend adults in useful places and play on people's sympathy.

Another issue is how a teacher who is NB would explain being non binary compared to someone who doesn't subscribe to the belief of gender identity.

It's going to be extremely hard to communicate in age appropriate language that doesn't lead to discussions of bodies and sex. And rely on the structure of gender stereotypes.

And the simplest terms would likely lead pupils to think, oh that's me. As many children don't subscribe to fixed gender stereotypes. Which, as per Cass, isn't a "neutral act."

We are free to believe in god/s or not. And then change our minds. We are free as adults to work out our sexuality, changing our minds as we go. Neither leads to surgical or medical interventions.

It's an entirely different type of belief with an entirely different end point for some who subscribe to it.

The only other type of belief that does the same is one that leads to fgm.

Because of this, any teacher with indications of being NB does need this scrutiny as it is so very varied.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · Today 12:17

Sorry - I sometimes forget that's not always regarded as a common abbreviation outside educational circles!

Amusingly, my ten year old daughter's French teacher is part of our social circle!

Non binary cannot exist as a category. Its either a third category which makes it " non trinary" or it puts you into 2 categories, binary amd non binary which makes you binary again. There fir any mention of ot whatsoever is effectively gas lighting.

Anything that allows people to obscure the sex of a person is a safeguarding issue. It put children in charge if their own safguarding which should not be happening in schools. Allowing or teaching children its ok to use words in the incorrect context changes the whole meaning of the sentence and can hide whats going on.

Gender needs to stay out of schools. Teachers and kids have all the time after school be or do what ever they want. Teachers should not be using children many if whom will be vulnerable to validate their identity. Thata not what kids are there for. Amd it's not their fault that the whole thing doesn't work without the forced participation of non consenting members if the public.

I find the discussion about how easy it is to get kids amd teens to go along with this disturbing. I mean uts literally owning up to < insert word we can't say, rhymes with broom/doom/zoom here> them. Thats not something you should be proud to say.

I had to google that!

Sorry - I sometimes forget that's not always regarded as a common abbreviation outside educational circles!

Off topic. But it was a revelation to my DD that in French lessons, and her French exam, she could make up facts about her family, pets, interests etc - often dependent on the vocab that came to mind. She didn’t need to tell the truth.

Yes! I tell my students this from Y7. They do have to be reminded not to accidentally contradict themselves if they make lots of stuff up though! It's fine in the GCSE spesking exam to go for the easier option by saying your sister is 3 instead of 23, but don't then tell me she works in a bank.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · Today 11:34

I actually talk about myself a lot in lessons, but that's because I'm an MFL teacher.

I had to google that!

Gender ideology abandons plain English and language is inaccessible and discriminatory

It’s why organisations who work with people in those categories are meant to use plain English

Off topic. But it was a revelation to my DD that in French lessons, and her French exam, she could make up facts about her family, pets, interests etc - often dependent on the vocab that came to mind. She didn’t need to tell the truth.

Yes. This is why I suggested earlier that requiring that people use incorrect pronouns is not only potentially damaging to the neurological development of young children, but is also discriminatory towards people with ASD, cognitive disabilities, and people whose first language is not English.

But young children are generally very literal.

As are older children and even some adults with autism.

Some with dyslexia can be very literal too.

I actually talk about myself a lot in lessons, but that's because I'm an MFL teacher. Most of our topics involve talking about yourself, your life, your family, your opinions, and we are constantly modelling examples of sentences on those topics.

As a result, pupils usually know loads about their MFL teachers. However... I never ever tell my students about my religious, moral or political beliefs, or about details of my relationships or how I feel about personal things. The point about gender identity is that it is a belief. It is not appropriate to state or imply tp pupils in a school that someone can be male if they were born female or vice versa, because that is a controversial belief, not supported by anything factual.

(Edited to add 'to pupils in a school')