Non Binary Teachers

You make some rational comments, but then some other comments are just bizarrely over the top, Coffee. Why the final line, why the need to be so rude? You seem to be taking this all very personally, when most of us are quite calmly discussing the issues.

Coffee473

I grew up in the 90s and I beg to differ. All of the rhetoric: “it’s not natural! It’s dangerous! Children will be brainwashed!” is exactly the same. And I’m not alone in thinking that, just Google it. Plenty of mainstream media articles saying the same thing. It has all been done before.

Lots of trans people and their allies agree with you because it gives them and you a veneer of victimhood to hang on to

Rather than gnashing teeth and wailing about biology

This translates as 'lets ignore the truth because I have no argument against it'

your time would be better served discussing ways to reconcile women’s rights with trans/NB rights.

Shouldn't that be discussing ways to reconcile trans/NB rights. with women’s rights?

After all the interlopers that are trans are ones trying to take away the rights of women and children.

Denying it won’t stop it happening.

Nobody is denying that its happening, we are fighting to protect the rights of women and children.

Leaving this thread now, I’ve wasted far too much of my sick days on it!

That was very much your choice.

I was a bit of a tomboy when I was a kid because my big sister was. She have me a ‘boy name’ when we played, we built dens and tree houses, played ‘boy games’ with action men and meccano.

I hated wearing frilly dresses because I was always tearing them clambering over fences or getting them caught in tree branches. I thought makeup and girly clothes looked like an awful lot of bother (had very glam mum and elder sisters).

What the hell would todays teachers have made of me? ‘I played at mountaineering and my name was Bill. We took our action men out with their helicopter (yes we had one) and built a tree house. I had on my brothers hand-me-down trousers because I hate wearing a dress…’

Huge amounts of victimhood going on here.

Try being a child with EAL or speech and language difficulties and not being able to comprehend or remember these confusing words that don't match the rest of the world.

Found this excerpt from when kids say they're trans from someone on Twitter:

All these identities pathologise children's natural individual self expression and draw attention to and over analyse gender stereotypes

I'd love to know if any NB teachers teach Spanish.

It's come up regarding Welsh.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-64164011.amp

"The lack of knowledge of LGBTQ+ terms in Welsh means when people use "nhw" sometimes they are unable to be understood, according to Rowan Gulliver, a 22-year-old teacher in Barry, Vale of Glamorgan.

Working in a Welsh-speaking school, Rowan - who uses the non-binary Mx prefixx^ and they/them pronouns - had to come out to colleagues in English because they did not feel they could be understood in Welsh, nor did they have the vocabulary to do so.

"You should be able to speak about your identity and other people in your first language," they said. "It's like a little part of you is dying when you have to say it in English."

A feminist who thinks biology isn't important in lots of circumstances?
Weird.

Guess women should just identify out of their oppression and stop wailing about it.

Just because one TRA said something ridiculous and hateful

Who are you talking about? It was you who implied women should stop ‘wailing about biology’. That’s what PP was responding to.

I don't want to be part of your feminism if it centres men and approves an ideology that erases women. Have a lovely evening.

please don’t accuse me of being a TRA. I am a woman, and a feminist, and trying to have a discussion of the nuances of this issue, which I come up against every day in my role as a teacher.Just because one TRA said something ridiculous and hateful does not mean all trans people feel like that. Just like, thankfully, you do not represent all feminists.

I'd love to know if any NB teachers teach Spanish.

Trans (women's) rights CANNOT co-exist with women's rights.

Because to capitulate to their demands (treating them as women and allowing unfettered access to all areas of women's spaces and services) means that some women will no longer be able to USE those spaces or services.

Therefore, women lose out EVERY TIME to allow a man's "identity" to trump their ACTUAL rights.

Do you think female victims of rape should just "get over it"? That orthodox women should just ignore their faith? That we should just ignore any kind of safeguarding for vulnerable women and girls? Because ANYONE can say they are trans. ANYONE. And there is no way to tell the good guys from the bad guys, so it is easier, safer and more logical just to keep ALL men out of women's spaces.

The good ones will understand why.
And the flip side of that coin is also true.

Don’t forget Nancy Kelly from Stonewall called lesbians who wouldn’t accept penises akin to sexual racists. Who’s really pushing the conversion therapy and trying to straighten the gays…?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225111/Stonewall-brands-lesbians-sexual-racists-raising-concerns-sex-transgender-women.html

Exactly, we can’t discuss our biology because we’re clearly hysterical emotional
women. TRAs always show their true colours eventually, silence the women who won’t comply.

“your time would be better served discussing ways to reconcile women’s rights with trans/NB rights”

No such thing as women’s rights if you’re inviting men to discuss and dominate it. Get off your knees.

If you want to talk about section 28 akd homophobia how do you feel about girls being taught lesbians being able to have a penis. Boys being told Men having vaginas. And straight couples self identifying themselves under the lgbt.

Gender and homosexuality can't really co exist can they.

Social contagion resulting in self harm.

While growing up in Australia, Hewson tried to untangle their feeling without tools, but it “ate at” them. When puberty arrived with its bodily changes, they developed a “really nasty” case of anorexia.

Through recovery, Hewson realized the eating disorder was in part a result of gender dysphoria — “a discomfort with and alienation from my body, and a need to control it or be in charge of it or shape it.”

At that same time, around age 16, Hewson began learning about feminism and queer history, “reaching for information and community wherever I could find it.” They started to feel things click into place.

If it was a socially driven trend with no evidence of physical harm, like being a goth, there wouldn't be such a push back.

I actually see types of gender identity in girls as being the latest type of anxiety / aesthetic driven self harm akin to eating disorders and other types of self harm, as well as dangerous plastic surgeries etc.
or some sort of Peter Pan complex.

www.teenvogue.com/story/liv-hewson-profile-nonbinary

• It's not scientifically evidenced. Same sex attraction is scientifically evidenced.

Meaning non binary is not scientifically evidenced

The social contagion aspect of gender identity is evident over and over again.

It's not scientifically evidenced. Same sex attraction is scientifically evidenced.

Dysphoria is evidenced by MH but no other substantial test. Brain scans have shown patterns aligning with body dysmorphia and sometimes same sex attraction.

It's a socially driven trend. Belief if you wish.

Same sex attraction cannot be compared to gender identity and the argument about denying gender identity is like section 28, which was about same sex attraction, doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

As there is evidence of physical long term harm to children and adults who weren't challenged enough with their ideas about changing gender and had no gatekeeping around changing their bodies.

Being gay doesn't entail any of that.

And again, what is NB?

I grew up in the 90s and I beg to differ. All of the rhetoric: “it’s not natural! It’s dangerous! Children will be brainwashed!”

This is what I mean, section 28 was this and was horrific . But there's no harm or 'regret' for massive surgeries when you are gay! As as ppl have pointed out, gender identity is 'contagious' whereas being gay simply isn't.

Most secondary schools could point to a group of girls who've all come out together.

Alll the detransitioners have said they were influenced online or rl groups. That it was a trend, a community.

And as no one knows what NB is, no one can ensure and wave it away as a harmless belief to share with children as it could mean they believe in physically harmful body modification

Agreed.

I'm all for pluralism, where people who identify as non-binary or trans are free to do so... as long as they don't insist that their belief needs to be accepted by anyone else e.g. transwomen playing in women's sports because they believe (or say that they believe) they are women. But the impact of this belief, and the way that it is compelled as a truth, is too great. I am a vehement non-believer because of the harms that come from this belief.

Too many autistic and/or same-sex attracted girls are being pulled towards the idea that non-binary liberates them from sex-based stereotypes... and then many go on to "realise" that they "feel" more like a boy, because of their practical clothing choices and general discomfort with their changing female bodies. Owing to social media and its associated social contagion, binding then amputating breasts and taking cross-sex hormones becomes a desirable and integral part of that journey.
This comes back to the point that social transition, even to a seemingly "liberating" non-binary identity, is not a neutral act and can lead to irreversible harm. This belief causes harm.

Ah biology that pesky old thing

Maybe they could discount gravity whilst they’re at it

Rather than gnashing teeth and wailing about biology your time would be better served discussing ways to reconcile women’s rights with trans/NB rights. Denying it won’t stop it happening.

I'm not sure telling women their rights are as good as lost anyway so they may as well submit is really working, tbh.

gnashing teeth and wailing about biology

Ah, there we have it.