Jo Phoenix in Woman’s Hour today (Tuesday)

About bloody time Woman’s Hour !
Thank you Jo. I heard you speak at Fillia and was moved & angry. Delighted for you & your legal team. Shame on the OU.

Sweeping generalisations are part of the Sex & Gender moderation policy
https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

I couldn't care less if someone wears a "frock" or not. It is irrelevant to the redefinition of woman, which is the underlying category error that is causing all this reversing of women's rights and bullying of women for saying sex is real.

..”would consider whether to appeal” - you’re right, sorry!

I’ve just read that the OU are “disappointed in the judgment” and looking to appeal. What?! Where’s their humility?

I think they said they are considering it, have they said anything more definitive?

I have written to the Guardian to express my disappointment at this spiteful and Ill informed tweet. I am still a subscriber, on the basis that it might keep me from echo chamber syndrome, but she has seriously erred in posting this nonsense, she admits she hasn’t read the judgement. It is really poor form and it causes the Guardian reputational damage. Im not asking for her to be sacked, but I do think she could be encouraged to read the judgement and to then consider apologising to Jo Phoenix.

Thanks for this thread - will listen on Sounds.

I’ve just read that the OU are “disappointed in the judgment” and looking to appeal. What?! Where’s their humility?

Some of the X posts by women academics - including self-defined feminists- are appalling. Extraordinary amounts of smug self satisfied bullying towards Jo Phoenix… without ever giving any explanation of what they think is wrong with what she said. Variations on ‘the racist uncle doesn’t think he’s racist’. These are people who are just not very clever but imagine they are. I’m glad I got out of academia when I did.

shes lost the plot.

What has happened to Zoe Williams has she gone quite mad? So done with the Guardian and all who sail in her.

Jo thank you, you go down in history as one of the amazing women who has fought frontline, protecting the recognition of WOMEN in society. thank you. x

And BTW, @FlissMumsnet, you don’t need to read far on the conflict in the Middle East board to come across not just “sweeping generalisations”, but fact-free, outright misleading nonsense, speculation, lies and recycled propaganda. Rather, finding a post without any of that would be a challenge. Similarly on Harry and Meghan, breaking news stories, celeb threads, school run clique topics —hell, most of the site. Yet we rarely see systematic Swiss-cheese deletions on threads outside this specific topic of gender identity and more specifically, transwomen.

Funny, that.

@FlissMumsnet I look forward to “sweeping generalisations” becoming part of the moderation policy, no? Most of the entire site would, I fear, disappear - especially if MILs, people who use toilet brushes, wear athleisure, don’t send thank you cards or park really badly were of a delicate kind of identity. Can you imagine the deletions?

It was you, surely, who read into my post the idea that “the sexual kinks of men in frocks” implied something about the “motivation/agenda of transgender women” in general? Which is very telling, because I certainly didn’t say that. YOU interpreted it as a “sweeping generalisation”. I didn’t libel or harass anyone, or say anything offensive.

I REALLY suggest you read the Phoenix judgment. Women are allowed to say gender critical things without being told they are committing a terrible offence. Deleting, censoring and heavy disapproving of women’s legitimate expression of views is getting employers into trouble.

The days of making faces like we’re TERRIBLY BAD for the (gasp!) hate crime of “sweeping generalisations” is drawing to a close. It’s especially ironic on a thread about Jo Phoenix’s case about being harassed and silenced for expressing legitimate opinion. MN needs to be getting a bit more sharp about their moderation policy.

Wanted to drop in my support for Jo in case she happens upon here and say congratulations and awesome courage. The WH interview was great. I've shared it.

Have they emailed? They sometimes do, it's worth clarifying.

Wh Twitter have attempted to gather some balance in their feed today; poor Jameela... only 8 likes.

Was it the phrase “men in frocks” that you are deleting me for, MN? Is this factual statement somehow incendiary? We’ve got a whole forum now where posters are posting regular outright pure antisemitism and racial aggravation these days; but you’re still deleting women for what the courts KEEP establishing are legitimate viewpoints?

Literally no reason why my post above should have been deleted, MN? There was nothing abusive in my post. I thought we’d got beyond the days of doing the monitors’ bidding for purely stating facts, and leaving threads like Swiss cheese because women are having their legitimate views deleted? Very ironic, on a thread about Jo Phoenix’s tribunal. Please do explain why my post was deleted and why you think I should not be able to express gender critical opinions?

I thought her best was her seminal series, rightly published in a serious newspaper, "Exercises I Have Done".

I remember Zoe Williams mainly for using her column(s) to have a go at smug, self obsessed parents - until she got pregnant herself and started writing a pregnancy and baby column.

Jeez, if only it was just an hour Zoe.

On and on and on go the TRAs, invading spaces, forcing women to share single sex spaces, pushing them out of jobs and sports, silencing them for daring to point out that no-one can change sex. It’s like we’ve reverted back to times to when people believed the Earth was flat and it’s every fucking hour of every fucking day of this nonsense.

Couldn't sleep last night so I read through the whole pile about Jo's tribunal. When you do it that way you can see the horrors she has experienced seeping in slowly stage by stage. She was treated like a typhoid Mary, her getting a large grant was met with silence in a faculty meeting where someone else was applauded for a much lesser achievement and so on.

But what really stuck out to me from the various e-mails, open letter(s) etc. was that this new ideology supports rights and fair treatments only for some demographic groups and not for everyone.

And if you then raise your head from your mobile and think for a moment you realise that this is true in all the gender identity ideology:

The rare identities are supported while everybody else is expected to be the background with firm acceptance of sexist two-dimensional binary stereotypes for themselves.

Apologies for not being on the topic.

It describes former male friends of mine…
(still male, no longer friends)

Care of a PP (@flimpychimp I think?) on the other thread

Christ. That interview really brings to life how terribly Jo has been treated.

If you ever read this Jo- thank you so very much for keeping going. It would have been so easy just to give in. You said you aren't sure it's courage that drove you on but that is the only word for it.