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Original poster

Victoria McCloud comment re Forstater

39 replies

RethinkingLife · 22/01/2024 23:20

Comment from Maya Forstater about McCloud.

High Court judge thinks:

1) That belief is not an "actual" protected characteristic
2) That S26 EqA harassment is based solely on feelings and does not have a reasonableness test

3) That manifestation of belief is not protected

Quite worrying.

The funny thing is that it is in response to a post about this article which suggests that GC discrimination is not much of a problem and is being nipped in the bud already with a little bit of training.

Also in that thread DEI trainer [Barnes - see image] suggests equating how do we protect people gender with critical beliefs to "how do we protect racists?", "how do we protect homophobes?".

Read the Jo Phoenix judgement and remember not to compare your colleagues to #RacistUncleAtTheDinnerTable

https://x.com/MForstater/status/1749531003797057835?s=20

NB: McCloud was the youngest ever Master in the High Court when appointed, and the second woman Master and the first trans person
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_McCloud

Victoria McCloud comment re Forstater
Victoria McCloud comment re Forstater
OP posts:
HipTightOnions · 23/01/2024 06:38

The audio visual information is of a similar state too

So it is.

ScathingAngelAgrona · 23/01/2024 05:19

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 22/01/2024 23:25

Gender identity is a biological characteristic?!!??

Well, if a Gender identity tries really, really hard and umm identifies as a biological characteristic and then makes an invocation to urrr the Great Gender God Woo then...

They still remain the sex they were born at birth and the gender identity is shown again that gender has little to do with biology or reality.

dunBle · 23/01/2024 02:21

Is an Employment Appeal Tribunal "a low level court"? I know the original employment tribunal wasn't precedent setting, but the appeal was.

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 23/01/2024 00:01

OvaHere · 22/01/2024 23:51

It's very much like reading the bad faith legal interpretations of another MN fave. With less added bundles!

The audio visual information is of a similar state too

OvaHere · 22/01/2024 23:51

It's very much like reading the bad faith legal interpretations of another MN fave. With less added bundles!

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 22/01/2024 23:48

I'm x-posting all over!

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 22/01/2024 23:46

donquixotedelamancha · 22/01/2024 23:37

No, I think the judge means that gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, not a biological one.

She's right on the law but is expressing it in a very partial way. Of course being a feminist doesn't confer any right to treat any protected group badly but there has never been a case of that (to my knowledge).

All the cases of harassment and discrimination have been towards feminists and its not usually trans people doing the harassing in employment cases. So the supposed clash between the PCs of gender reassignment and belief is a red herring.

Show quote history

Not what was quoted (& in my experience judges use their words carefully!)

Victoria McCloud comment re Forstater
OvaHere · 22/01/2024 23:45

Incoherent and self interested. Also way out of touch given all the recent court victories in our favour.

donquixotedelamancha · 22/01/2024 23:44

Thanks, I misread it. She's talking more shite than I thought.

Original poster
RethinkingLife · 22/01/2024 23:40

donquixotedelamancha · 22/01/2024 23:37

No, I think the judge means that gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, not a biological one.

She's right on the law but is expressing it in a very partial way. Of course being a feminist doesn't confer any right to treat any protected group badly but there has never been a case of that (to my knowledge).

All the cases of harassment and discrimination have been towards feminists and its not usually trans people doing the harassing in employment cases. So the supposed clash between the PCs of gender reassignment and belief is a red herring.

Show quote history

so as to present a biological characteristic (gender identity) as a contested belief.

Although McCloud does proceed to mention "gender reassignment" in the next sentence.

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 22/01/2024 23:37

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 22/01/2024 23:25

Gender identity is a biological characteristic?!!??

No, I think the judge means that gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, not a biological one.

She's right on the law but is expressing it in a very partial way. Of course being a feminist doesn't confer any right to treat any protected group badly but there has never been a case of that (to my knowledge).

All the cases of harassment and discrimination have been towards feminists and its not usually trans people doing the harassing in employment cases. So the supposed clash between the PCs of gender reassignment and belief is a red herring.

Original poster
RethinkingLife · 22/01/2024 23:31

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 22/01/2024 23:25

Gender identity is a biological characteristic?!!??

Well, apparently such thought-leaders are illustrative of the intentional diversity of judicial appointments. It's certainly intellectual diversity. Like today's Adams vs ERCC ET and the discussion about 'some people believe human beings are mammals'…

OP posts:
Morwenscapacioussleeves · 22/01/2024 23:25

Gender identity is a biological characteristic?!!??

HoneyButterPopcorn · 22/01/2024 23:24

Some people think they can make stuff up.