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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Powerful poem from a transman

42 replies

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 17:06

I don’t know whether this link will work. I know nothing about Ethan. I found this so powerful- the recognition of what was done to Emily.
I wonder whether there was a way to let Emily live.

Whatever- very expressive and powerful. Good luck to Ethan coming to terms with Emily. Poor Emily.

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TerfTalking · 22/01/2024 16:21

I hear regret, and sad acceptance that there’s no going back.

StrongerThanYouTh1nk · 22/01/2024 15:59

Very traumatic to watch. How can ‘doctors’ who add physical pain to a psychological one sleep at night?! We are talking about vulnerable children too. Very predatory. Your day will come!

Atethehalloweenchocs · 21/01/2024 23:06

Just read an interview with the poet. These statements jumped out.

  • Why did you give the poem that title?
  • Ethan Smith: I worded it that way because it felt the most comfortable. I know that I don't personally believe I was a girl – obviously I've always felt like I was a boy, but having been raised as a girl and socialised as a girl for so long it still makes more sense for me to address it in that way.
  • You say sorry to your younger self in the piece. Can you describe what was going on for you there?
  • ES: The apology isn't about what I did; it's about what the person I was had to go through to get to where I am now. So it's an apology for not recognising it sooner and not being able to verbalise any of that. I'm pretty happy now, I'm glad I got here eventually, but it is just acknowledging that it was hard.*
Interview

This Trans Guy Wrote A Letter To The Little Girl He Once Was To Say Sorry (buzzfeednews.com)

This Trans Guy Wrote A Letter To The Little Girl He Once Was To Say Sorry

"The year you turned 11 was the first time you said out loud that you didn't want to live anymore," wrote Ethan to Emily. He talked to BuzzFeed News.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/patrickstrudwick/from-ethan-to-emily

Sheheshe · 21/01/2024 22:01

Powerful. I see the woman who could have been a champion on the women’s baseball team, shrunken inside their baggy man-suit. Articulating a pain and grief that hasn’t quite resolved itself into regret. Good luck Ethan for the healing of your physical and psychological scars.

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 21:44

Indeed.

Hopefully Ethan will have lots to say and we’ll find out how things pan out longer term.

And hopefully things go well- I know none of us would want to be proved right in our suspicion that Ethan and Emily’s problems are not over.

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PriOn1 · 21/01/2024 21:37

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 19:48

I hear recognition that there were sacrifices, that things were lost as well as gained. I don’t see unequivocal regret.

Yet.

BananaPyjamaLlama · 21/01/2024 21:31

Watching that I see 100% regret. And terrible sadness. However much she is trying to convince herself that she's ok and shes living her best life now, in her eyes, her words and her whole being I see a person thats miserable, confused and very much full of regret and unhappiness.

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 20:51

Yes I agree @coldbrightmorning but society and the law doesn’t. And it certainly isn’t always.

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coldbrightmorning · 21/01/2024 20:49

We don’t believe suicide is a rational choice

Side note. I do believe suicide can be a rational choice. Including in the situation you give, of prefering it to unavoidable pain.

But that’s a different thread!

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 20:37

Yes. All possible interpretations are deeply sad, that is beyond doubt.

The gains I saw, @coldbrightmorning , were about making it to 21 and having forged an identity they could live with. Ethan is bright, articulate , well presented and was able to deliver that poem. That is impressive.

I believe they could have forged that identity as Emily. I don’t know whether Ethan believes that- perhaps, but perhaps not.

For absolute clarity, I don’t think anyone is truly trans. I think some people resolve some of their issues in transitioning. I don’t believe it’s the only way they could have done so. I recognise that for some people it feels that way.

There are parallels with suicide. We don’t believe suicide is a rational choice, we see it’s a response to an unbearable illness. I haven’t given a trigger warning, should I have? The whole thread is about self harm, imo.

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pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 20:26

I hear some relief at survival even if that involved the sacrifice of Emily- who s/he admits didn’t survive.

It was deep and complex and I guess even Ethan won’t fully understand it for some years- assuming you believe (which I do) in subconscious communication.

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BlessedKali · 21/01/2024 20:26

All you become is your same self but with a broken body

coldbrightmorning · 21/01/2024 20:24

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 19:48

I hear recognition that there were sacrifices, that things were lost as well as gained. I don’t see unequivocal regret.

That poem doesn’t talk about gains.

I think the poem, and the line ‘I am sorry this process is taking so long’ and ‘ maybe I don’t understand death’ are reflecting on the fact that the transition has not birthed Ethan in the way the poet expected. Emily, according to GI never really existed, or at least should have died as the ‘authentic’ identity of Ethan was released through medical transition. But that hasn’t happened. Emily abides. The person the poet was, is the person the poet still is. And now the poet is trying to find a way to understand and navigate that.

That is what I have taken from it. It’s a fascinating and insightful poem, but I do find it deeply sad. I find it hard from that poem to believe that medically transitioning to appear as male was the best way for that young person to manage the difficulties they were clearly facing. The line ‘this body is obsolete’ does not sound like someone who feels like surgery and hormones have given them their ‘true’ body.

BlessedKali · 21/01/2024 20:24

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 19:48

I hear recognition that there were sacrifices, that things were lost as well as gained. I don’t see unequivocal regret.

I would say unequivocal regret rears it's head in the middle of the night, in the darkest hours. To be on stage you have to have harnessed some amount of stoicism

quantumbutterfly · 21/01/2024 20:24

Oh dear lord that poor child. There's something in my eye.

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 20:19

There were a couple of interesting comments below. One said it was ‘one of the more interesting things she’s read about sterility’.
Another quoted a poem about mirrors and images, and was challenged about that. That we waste time and opportunity trying to understand who we ‘really’ are.

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SirChenjins · 21/01/2024 20:19

BayCityCoaster · 21/01/2024 20:03

Pretty close to it, though.

It doesn’t read like someone who’s content with the irrevocable decision made.

I agree.

This isn’t a choice that can be changed - it’s not like the regret that you might feel if you’ve married the wrong person, or moved to the wrong neighbourhood, or booked an expensive holiday that didn’t meet your expectations and you’re £££££s out of pocket, or you took the wrong job. This is a life choice that Emily made at a very vulnerable time in her life, no doubt fuelled by a very vocal and persuasive ideology, and now has to face the lifelong consequences. There’s no sense of joy, relief or peace whatsoever there.

OldCrone · 21/01/2024 20:07

@Atethehalloweenchocs
But do I believe some people are really trans? Yes.

Can you explain what you mean by really trans? On another thread recently, someone who believes that people can be 'really trans' was asked the same question. They said that these people had a mental illness called gender dysphoria. Is that what you mean by really trans or do you mean something else?

MalagaNights · 21/01/2024 20:06

It's possible to be sad at things lost and things that won't be and still feel you made the right decision.

It's not clear what Ethan thinks.

Some people here, like the audience want Ethan to be saying what they want.

BayCityCoaster · 21/01/2024 20:03

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 19:48

I hear recognition that there were sacrifices, that things were lost as well as gained. I don’t see unequivocal regret.

Pretty close to it, though.

It doesn’t read like someone who’s content with the irrevocable decision made.

coldbrightmorning · 21/01/2024 19:58

Not read the comments but the reaction of the audience is fascinating. They obviously want this to be a simple cheerleading pro-transition message, and it’s not, but they still try to react like it is. They aren’t really listening.

That is a painful, deeply personal, deeply intimate exploration of loss of identity, of loss of self, of loss of future, , of loss of potential, of trying to reconnect with self and find some incorporation of self again, of honesty in trying to articulate what transition really means for all of this, of trying to work through all that and make sense of it.

It’s not at all the simple, ‘ I am now living my authentic self and all my problems have gone away!’ Message that trans activists want it to be. That the audience seem to need it to be.

That was a really brave poem to write and to read publicly. Because it was honest. The thing the Gender ideology movement hates most.

MalagaNights · 21/01/2024 19:57

It's very powerful.

To me it reflects the dangerous and unhealthy belief that you can seperate from the person you were in the past. The idea that there are 2 yous is not psychologically healthy. This separation of self and death of your past is not how to deal with pain. We know that.

We know that it needs to be integrated into who you are, recognised as a whole complete you, with history, mistakes and difficulties.
That is what everyone has to do to differing degrees.

This is so painful because Emily is talked about as dead, disappeared and no longer existing. Ethan obviously feels pain with this idea. The physical process hasn't dealt with the acceptance of Emily, and who she is, instead it's erased her. That's why it feels so tragic.

pickledandpuzzled · 21/01/2024 19:48

I hear recognition that there were sacrifices, that things were lost as well as gained. I don’t see unequivocal regret.

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BayCityCoaster · 21/01/2024 19:39

Atethehalloweenchocs · 21/01/2024 19:27

*MsGoodenough · Today 19:22

Heartbreaking. The comment show how deeply the beliefs are embedded. How you can watch and listen to this poem and this is a young man loving his best life is beyond me.*

Fair enough. It is beyond me how you cant. I firmly believe some people are trans. I also believe that it is not as many as currently identify that way, that transitioning should be done carefully, slowly and with much much professional support from people who are not intimidated into agreeing with everything a client says in case they are told they are trans phobic. I also believe young lesbians should not be pushed to identify as trans and that women need safe spaces. But do I believe some people are really trans? Yes. Sorry it's beyond you to understand that.

But it seems as if Ethan/Emily has profound regrets, and so isn’t ’really trans’.

How can you watch that video and come to the conclusion it was a young man living his ‘best life’…. ?

SirChenjins · 21/01/2024 19:37

Ethan/Emily is simply collateral damage in the ideology of the TRAs, nothing more. What’s one more teenager forced to live a life of ill health and confusion once reality hits? Their lives mean nothing, because for their story to be meaningful it calls into question the whole premise that you can be born into the wrong body. It was a powerful and painful account to watch, and I hope Ethan finds peace.