Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?

I find it very worrying that so many girls/young women think that being a woman is so utterly shit they want to opt out of it. The shocking increases to GIDS type services are amongst teenage girls

our girls & young women are being subjected to sexual harassment, a porn soaked culture & messages that say ‘proper’ girls wear pink, love glitter & fluffy things, have perfect hair & make up at all times. It’s no wonder they try to escape

somone said once that TW are running towards something and TM are running away from something. It seems to me there’s someting in that

Exactly.

And you might also note that the male sex class is not facing any of the flack about being transphobic, because the male sex class is not losing anything by the gender identity ideology coming into some power:

Not their places on the podium, not their leadership places (trans men are in the news mostly for giving birth, not for taking over leadership in men's organisations while trans women quite frequently do take over leadership in women's organisations, or win awards as the Woman Of The Year in something, etc.)

The male sex class is not exposed to greater risk of sexual violence in their prisons if trans men are put there or in the toilets or dressing rooms etc.

The male sex class is not even told to lose all names which have traditionally been used to denote membership in it. Fathers are not told that they should be 'impregnating parents', for instance, the way some now tell mothers that they are 'gestating parents' or 'birthing parents' Men are never called 'ejaculators' the way women are now often called 'menstruators.'

Even GC men in social media get treated with a velvet glove by the TRAs while GC women are mercilessly attacked.

So when we have these debates about why GC women are so rigid or so unwilling to make compromises over what percentage of women's rights they should be willing to hand over we never notice that men are not expected to hand anything much over.

No because they are still female, but I'm pretty sure you said upthread that they might face issues from women if they enter them and you are right, but that is because they have chosen to try to look like men. That is not a good reason to remove single sex spaces, it's certainly not the gotcha you are trying to make it.

I think there should be some sort of sports/team theapist/pastoral care member of staff who could sit with her and have a polite and calm conversation to let her know that she absolutely cannot compete against women - with full reasoning relating to male puberty and science

You're joking now. You think a fully grown man needs a trained professional to sit him down and tell him he's been through puberty and not to attempt to cheat? How stupid do you think he is? I yield to no one in my contempt for his behaviour, but I don't think he's a half wit.

What spaces do you think transmen should use?

And should they be eligible for Maternity protections? What about quotas for women politicians?

That’s an interesting take - do you mean they should then also be exempt from women’s spaces?

The 'reasoning' was pointed out numerous times by the women he was competing against and sharing changing rooms with. The response was predictably that they were transphobic and that their objection to male genitalia in the locker room should be addressed via counselling. Riley Gaines, 12 time all American athlete was accused of being a bigot, jealous and a sore loser.

That’s fine as long as you know that means trans men will be accessing women’s toilets.

But if they use men's spaces they may well put themselves at risk.

This illustrates the main issue which is, the problem is not symmetrical. The risk/threat is from males towards females. No matter how said males and females identify.

I was just called homophobic because my partner is a transman.

I mean... That doesn't seem like a great talking point if someone really is interested in a conversation.

Whether they use a cubicle and no one notices or stand there in full view doing windmills with their dick, doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't be there. Period. (Pun intended). Women should have the right to be there without the presence of a penised male, regardless of intentions.

It's not difficult!

What bothers me about the trans man gotcha is that they have chosen to opt out of woman hood.

That's not a good reason to remove single sex spaces from women who need them.

When radical posters discuss sports, their line is: no males (fine) and then when asked about potential opportunities/categories for transpeople - the answer is "not my/our problem".

The other answer, frequently given though you chose to ignore it, is the obvious one. They can compete against other males and play in all-male teams.

Presumably Transwomen also use cubicles in the women's bathroom? I don't imagine the majority are whipping out their penis (if they have one) and urinating in the sink.

Good luck with that.

Lia Thomas has been very vocal that they do not believe that they have an advantage over women and that women who point out that there is an advantage are 'fake feminists'.

@pointbreak77 I'd bet that woman would never use a women's bathroom so this situation wouldn't arise. Validation innit.

If they did and were challenged, I'm sure they'd have no problem saying 'actually I'm trans' and the world would continue to spin.

Yes.

I didn't say educated, I said given full reasoning. As is fair with any rejection. And if she was not OK with this, then actual therapy would be needed to help her.

So as a lesbian you now get to decide that we are homophobic?

My partner lived as a lesbian until he was 30. He is a transman. People in our lives know he is trans.

Most of our friends are lesbians and disagree with you. Does that make their opinions more or less valid then yours? Or are some lesbians more right then others?

I hate this idea that one person speaks for the entirety.

You as a lesbian don't get to decide we are homophobic simply because you are gay, any more than Lia Thomas gets to represent all trans people in sports.

And how does coming on here calling me homophobic help this debate? I could call you transphobic but I doubt that would encourage thoughtful communication between us.

However it is a good example of why I don't love sharing my views.

Also I've never been a lesbian. I believe this would be a good example of bi erasure.

It isn’t a gotcha.

I just want someone to explain what you do when you see someone like that in a women’s toilet? How do you know they are a woman?

you don’t.

But Klcak, if it wasn't for all this 'trans nonsense' there would be no need for someone to sit and have a nice conversation with Lia Thomas about competing, they would never have pushed themselves into women's competitions in the first place.

I think it is wrong that Lia Thomas has competed in women's races. But I don't just think she should be chucked out of swimming entirely, I think there should be some sort of sports/team theapist/pastoral care member of staff who could sit with her and have a polite and calm conversation to let her know that she absolutely cannot compete against women - with full reasoning relating to male puberty and science - and she must therefore continue to compete against men or help set up, pioneer and participate in a trans category. It would actually be in the interests of woman to help with this as then there would not be any biological males in women's sports.

Not sure if you are being naive here but Lea Thomas knew exactly what male physical advantages he had when competing against women and was more then happy to exploit that fact knowing full well he would be supported by the University who themselves were utterly captured by trans ideology. He went from being an average college athlete ranked in the hundreds to winning events. The idea that he needed to be educated about male puberty and science in some therapist is nonsense.

do you honestly think you’re the first person to try that gotcha with us @pointbreak77 ?

tje answer is they’re still women, they’re welcome to be with women

Yes @pointbreak77

we know what transmen look like.

still included in my feminism. Still can use the ladies if they prefer.

Because we're all people are we all need to live on the earth together.
I certainly think it is fine to be interested in the rights, safety and dignity of woman - but if you dismiss anyone who doesn't fall into that category and don't care about them, then any discussions that you have with them are not going to go very well. And this is the case. It is really not going well. There are arguments online every day and IRL, there is physical violence. The OP is asking - why are women complacent re trans issues. And I am telling you that you I would fall into the category of "complacent", even though I take my safety very seriously, because I don't want to dismiss other people who aren't women. I want to have solutions that are fair and suitable for all of the people in our society.

I am a woman, I have a teen daughter.
But I also have a husband and teen son.

I am certainly interested in the rights, dignity and safety of women and men. Not one at the expense of the other or with disregard and disinterest for the other.

I think it is wrong that Lia Thomas has competed in women's races. But I don't just think she should be chucked out of swimming entirely, I think there should be some sort of sports/team theapist/pastoral care member of staff who could sit with her and have a polite and calm conversation to let her know that she absolutely cannot compete against women - with full reasoning relating to male puberty and science - and she must therefore continue to compete against men or help set up, pioneer and participate in a trans category. It would actually be in the interests of woman to help with this as then there would not be any biological males in women's sports.