Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?

When you say 'trans female', are you talking about male people?

Well, in practical terms, the issue is that nobody can tell a harmless transwoman from a dangerous one, isn't it? So it's a moot point.

(And of course someone being vulnerable and in need of help and support themself doesn't necessarily equate to them being harmless.)

Exactly. Even if someone is has a PHD, if they genuinely believe that humans, a dimorphic species, can somehow magically change from one sex to another or if they co-opt DSD's in order to argue the false premise that sex is a spectrum, I am 100% going to question their critical thinking skills.

Oh I'm familiar with the stats, as I've said I do read onto this and I'm not uninformed. But my issue is with those who would present that as evidence that the entire trans female population is harmful and dangerous which is untrue.

I would also say that many of the stats that do exist don't fully represent the other issues that can affect trans people. Such as trans women being over represented in sex work, finding it harder to report domestic abuse in their relationships, more likely to access stable accommodation and especially crisis accommodation. All of those types of issues inevitably lead to a rise in criminal convictions. But that's an aside and a debate all of its own. My point is simply that that doesn't make it alright to represent the entire trans female population as predators and fetishists based on the statistics.

Would you? Based on what?

It's not a view I hold myself, but I know there is evidence that could be said points to exactly that conclusion.

@ArabellaScott I've seen posts on here essentially saying that trans women are all getting off on mascarading as women and its all a sexual fetish which is what makes them harmful and dangerous and that trans women say that themselves. I've reported comments like that repeatedly. I would call that type of comment a blanket lie.

And do you have access to stats on that? The studies I've seen suggests AGPs are a larger cohort than HSTSs by a huge order of magnitude.

I’ve literally seen it? I’ve seen several posts this week that have said as much.
It’s frankly bizarre of you to try and tell me I didn’t see this?

It's a sort of pretence of belief for most adults. What is most worrying is children who are being taught that one can pick and choose and change sex. How the hell anyone proposes to explain reproduction or avoid teen pregnancies when the kids are being taught fact free bollocks about gender identity, I do not know.

I don't message on here very often but I read a lot of the threads and I've seen the fetish pervert narrative frequently and it's uncalled for and harmful. There are small pockets of harmful people across all sections of society but I do think when trans women in particular are being described on here these types of blanket sweeping statements are more common than they should be and often it's presented to look like a much bigger demographic of the trans population than it really is.

Blanket lies? Can you share any?

I genuinely can’t follow the thought process of anyone who thinks a man can become a woman anymore more than I can follow the thought process of someone who thinks the Earth is flat 🤷🏻‍♀️

This 100000%. Sometimes it's just really unnecessary. I understand valid arguments about women's space etc etc but often it's blanket lies and stereotyping and genuine scaremongering and I can't engage with or support that because that is absolutely harmful to trans people.

No one here calls all trans people "fetish perverts". For a start many of them are female. The male ones have a range of reasons for identifying as the opposite sex.

Yeah, nobody does that, though. Unless they are fetish perverts. In which case I think it's very important we are able to describe them as such.

also I don’t know about anyone else but I’m beyond tired of endlessly having to fight to just retain what women already have, to push back the endless encroachments by men into our spaces & places, of funding legal cases for women bullied in their workplaces. I’m bloody knackered by the whole thing.

This.

My personal issue is that I think all of those things are fine to want and demand. My issue comes with the constant anti trans sentiment in general on here.
I think striving for protecting women’s space can exist at the same time as also allowing trans people to exist without calling them all fetish perverts.

I do think this is really true, there needs to be a base line of respect for a range of schemes of thought and ideology rather than an expectation of black and white thinking. I do think there's an assumption made about women who are accepting of trans identity in the first instance and often the narrative around that is very patronising. Take for an example @TawnyTs post where she describes not being able to understand why a PhD educated scientifically minded woman is happy to take her mates word on things and not done her own due diligence. What's to say that she hasn't read into it all and arrived at a different conclusion using both her intelligent mind and her life experience? Why can her conclusion not be accepted (disagreed with but accepted) and respected as the valid conclusion of an intelligent woman? It does come across a bit 'hivemind' and if women don't agree with the same conclusion then their intelligence is questioned. That's frustrating because I disagree with a lot of posters here, but I can still respect you all as intelligent women who have a genuine concern and have made an informed conclusion. It's just one that I also disagree with.

What damage do you mean?

The thing is Jemima is you also have to understand that from our pov we’ve had years of ppl coming on here & not posting in good faith. Taking partial screenshot's and posting them on Twitter & Facebook (they never ever link to the whole thread) so yes sometimes we can be suspicious and prickly but years of harassment from TRA will do that

also I don’t know about anyone else but I’m beyond tired of endlessly having to fight to just retain what women already have, to push back the endless encroachments by men into our spaces & places, of funding legal cases for women bullied in their workplaces. I’m bloody knackered by the whole thing.

@ArabellaScott it's moderated to the extent that posts are deleted but MNHQ rely on users complaining and often the damage is done before they have a chance to delete posts that break the rules.

The board is moderated, there are fairly strict rules for engagement. Anyone can post here within the rules. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree with you. There's often a lot of disagreement on here; it's the nature of a discussion board.

I think it's great to talk to people who have different angles, so long as it's in good faith. I'm not going to pretend to believe things that I don't, though.

I believe there should be a unisex option for trans people.

I believe trans sports should be a thing, with no one born a biological male competing against women is allowed.

I don't believe in hormone therapy for children.

Again though, how do I and others participate in these discussions when I am being called a closet lesbian and homophobe for having a trans partner?

How would my trans partner be part of these discussions on here?

In real life we share these beliefs with people, and actually have changed some people's minds because a transman understands more than most the advantage a biological man will always have in competition.

But why would he or I want to share on here when we are insulted?

If in order for the women on here to feel heard and respected he simply has to not be trans and that's not going to happen.

So again, do women on here even want the support of people like us? Do you want our voices with yours or am I as a woman supposed to shut up because I'm not the right voice or the right kind of woman?

Yes. Along similar lines, I’ve noticed a massive difference in the way vulnerability is perceived by those arguing against single sex spaces, depending on if it’s men or women who are vulnerable.

When men are vulnerable there’s something noble and precious about it - it elevates them and makes them worthy of and entitled to compassion, care and protection.

When women are vulnerable, it degrades us. Even saying that women are vulnerable relative to male people is “misogyny”, apparently, because to acknowledge our vulnerability is to “acknowledge” our “inferiority”, apparently.

Rather than making us worthy of and entitled to compassion, care and protection, it makes us somehow disgusting, weak and ignoble for having needs. Like we just haven’t tried hard enough to be strong and invincible.

We’re letting the side down by not being powerful enough, and confirming all the old stereotypes about women just being bloody feeble.

And the reality of our biological differences is completely irrelevant. Whereas a male person who’s taken oestrogen is “weak as a kitten” and that male “weakness” makes him the most holy, sacred and awe-inspiring person on the planet.

The doublethink is just breathtaking.

And I can’t see anything other than the deepest, direst misogyny at its root.