Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?

I'm very sorry that happened to you. That must have been quite scary to be yelled at.

I do not have a trans daughter. I have a son who wears dresses and appears to see himself as a woman. I strongly object to my reality, as the father of my son, being denied. People who are not in a similar situation probably have no idea of the distress and confusion this causes, and compelled speech makes it worse. Can anyone explain to me why his feelings of ‘womanliness’ are important but my knowledge of his physical reality and our shared history as father and son are unimportant?

I don't think most people care if you accidentally say a different pronoun as long as it's not meant in a malicious way.

My experience is a little different. I have been shouted at and called bigoted because I didn’t apologise for using a pronoun that was based on the sex of the person in question. I was attempting to avoid using any pronoun, but (also ND) I failed. I do not consider that using the correct sex-based pronoun is something that requires an apology, because I am not a member of the religion that requires ‘preferred’ gender-identity-based pronouns. If an apology is required for so-called ‘mis-gendering’ then that is compelled speech, equivalent to requiring someone to say “Amen” to someone else’s prayer.

Referring to my partner as a woman and a lesbian is referring to their genitalia.

I'm glad you feel women on here are compassionate to trans people. I do not share that sentiment, partially because of the above.

I share the same beliefs as you, so it seems beyond me having a trans partner and you having a trans daughter we are not so very different.

As someone who is also ND I understand that.

I don't think most people care if you accidentally say a different pronoun as long as it's not meant in a malicious way.

I will say I think an ongoing theme with these issues is people not feeling heard on either side.

I think a lot of people feel silenced. It's a good reminder about the importance of listening to eachother.

You are, I believe, the first person on this thread to mention anyone’s vagina. I think that’s because no-one else has any interest in your partner’s vagina.

I actually understand the feeling that women here are dismissive of trans people. There is a degree of frustration with activists who come here and it becomes clear that they are not engaging in good faith discussion; this happens over and over again, and it is hardly surprising that some people’s responses are robust.

I’m occasionally uncomfortable because a few people assume that most transwomen are AGP, and I don’t like the possibility that that might include my son. But actually, when I read carefully what women here are saying, overwhelmingly they are compassionate towards all trans-identified people who are respectful towards women. That is, those who don’t enter women’s spaces, and don’t parody womanhood, and don’t exhibit worrying behaviour that demeans women. But they don’t accept trans ideology that says TWAW and that women should welcome men into their spaces and fawn over them.

On a personal level though it seems unnecessary to call him/her just to make your point

i probably wouldn’t tbh. Not would many on here in some settings.

but I want to reserve the right to forget sometimes without becoming a social pariah. I’m neurodivergent with a shocking poor working memory. It takes a huge amount of my already stretched processing power.

i want my ND kid not to be ostracised by friends when they inevitably screw up on new names or neopronouns.

likwise my great aunty who has dementia and can’t for the life of her fathom what’s going on.

i also want to be able to call a male rapist or a sports cheat he. And I want the press to be permitted to do so.

this was never about anyone’s lovely trans friends or lover. It’s about unintended consequences fucking over people who don’t have a voice.

A very clear and observant summary. Thanks Nepeta.

I see you have gone through my statements point by point but I can't see where I have disagreed with you?

I don't believe Transwomen are biological women.

Can you respond to what I've said without that premise?

And while mocking my questions, you don't seem to have given them any actual response?

With all due respect, I'm not sure trans men will ever feel supported by people who insist on calling them women.

I don't believe in compelled speech. I was a Jordan Peterson supporter, I live in Toronto too. From a legal standpoint I'm in agreement.

On a personal level though it seems unnecessary to call him/her just to make your point.

"I can't follow the thought process of someone who simplifies being trans down to this".

No one does.

"I don't believe a man can become a woman, but I believe Transwomen are Transwomen".

As do many on here. But the issue is that the vast majority of progressives think transwomen are women. And moreover, that anyone disagreeing with this is evil.

"Again, it appears women on here want trans people to disappear which will never happen".

It appears just like the first sentence that you love using strawmen.

"I guess I'm wondering how people see this improving? Do trans people have to no longer exist in order for people to feel safe"?

And again.

"No you can't tell a predator from a non predator based on anything other than they are a predator".

Males are far more likely to be than females.

"Being trans is one part of a person. Not the whole person".

Oh but it is, hence the argument that rejecting transwomen are women means denying trans people their humanity, their existence.

i believe that your partner is trans. I think you should refer to your partnership in the way you want..

this

and like the PP I don’t believe compelled speech is a good thing in a well functioning society.

I also don’t believe Jesus Christ is my lord and saviour. Im happy you have a faith. Im happy for you if it makes you happy.

But there are consequences for trying to override reality. And they are not good especially if we make laws based on that belief. So as Long as people don’t try to force me to pretend I believe the same as they do then We can all get along just fine.

(edited for clarity)

Oh my gosh this made me cry. 💖 Thank you so much for saying this. You made my whole day. xx

Aside from numerous times on here, I can think of several activists in Scotland and at least one famous person who claim that exactly. I mean, you may not have seen it but I certainly have.

@Josette77 I just wanted to add a post to support you. People have made huge assumptions about you and your beliefs based on the fact your partner is trans and you've responded calmly and articulately throughout.

@Josette77 You said in a previous comment yesterday that you didn't want to think about what would happen if your partner ever needed to be strip searched by police. Well the reason it matters to me to acknowledge that transmen are female is because I do think and care about this. I really worry about the vulnerability of women who have changed their legal sex to male. It's not being unkind to point out that, what I would call 'gender ideology ', not only allows males to enter women's spaces but also encourages women to give up their sex based rights when they identify as men.

I do not wish bad luck on anyone but if a transman ever needed us, we would be the people standing up for her right to female care - whatever the sex marker on her documents. I very much doubt it would be transwomen who would be bothered.

But I have been clear all along about my beliefs so assuming people read beyond me having a trans partner they will know this about me already.

I've never seen anyone post that on here either.

No trans person I've ever come across in real life has even told me they've literally changed sex. They have all just been normal people trying to get on with their life.

I don't believe my partner is "literally male", so I certainly wouldn't expect others to either?

Cool. There's a been a surprising amount of posters visiting over the past few years who have been insistent that they have literally changed sex and that we're horrific bigots for pointing out that discussions about single sex services becomes difficult and somewhat clouded when their presence in said service makes it ipso facto a mixed sex service.

I don't believe my partner is "literally male", so I certainly wouldn't expect others to either?

But if rather than focus on the issues of single sex spaces and protecting women, people would rather focus on making sure I understand that my partner is a biological woman that seems pointless.

Yes, he is a biological woman who is taking testosterone and presents like a man. I am not in denial.

I'm not likely though to feel comfortable in these discussions if everything I say even when I'm in agreement with most of you centers around my partners vagina?

I believe gender dysphoria is a real mental illness. I don't know if people are born in their wrong bodies. I know that's how they feel?

I believe transitioning is typically the treatment with the best outcomes for trans people.

That's really all I can say for certain.

They might be polite to you @ArabellaScott but that's not everyone's experience.

The question in the OP was why do more women not participate.

I don't think it was asking why women don't participate on this board. I read it as asking why women are happy to support the loss of women's rights. There's a whole big world out there, and to be honest, women on here are relatively polite and accommodating!

I'm haven't commented because frankly, staying silent seemed the polite option. But OK....I believe that your partner is trans. I think you should refer to your partnership in the way you want.But if you're expecting people on here to agree that your partner is literally male, I'm sorry, but that's not going to happen.I'm not mocking and I'm not stating that your comments aren't valid on this board. But I don't agree with compelled beliefs/speech.