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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?

411 replies

JazbayGrapes · 19/01/2024 18:29

I mean, outside GC or radfem circles, i have heard some of the most outrageous things, coming not from the loony left, but seeming well-meaning, semi-conservative women. Like "What is your problem? Can't you just #BeKind?"

  1. Re. sports: "A lesson in inclusion and acceptance for a girl is much more valuable than any trophy. Or maybe your daughter should train harder."

  2. Re. prisons: "That's easy - don't break the law and you'll have nothing to worry about."

  3. Re. homeless shelters: "Imagine being so ungrateful for a roof over your head that you would complaint about trans."

4)Re. public toilets/showers/changing rooms: "If you are such a prude to undress in front of male genitalia, them maybe you should stay home and never go to gyms or swimming pools or etc."

I'm a a loss...

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13
Marchintospring · 21/01/2024 22:21

Really I think we need to recognise how massive the differences in male and female biology play out in modern society.
Puberty ;
Boys voices occasional go squeaky as their testicles drop. Possibly embarrassing for a year or two .
Girls start bleeding out of their “private parts”. Embarrassing , messy, painful. For 30 years or so.

Boys get hair. Boys can shave, have stubble or full beard depending on fashion.
Boys get muscles. They can do the gym or not bother. Neither option affects anything. Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of California.

Girls get hair .Girls absolutely have to get rid of hair .
Girls get hips and breast . Both need to be the appropriate size according to how they want to be treated in society. Big breasts are “good” but not in the serious workplace obviously.

Adulthood;
Boys turn into men. Get a woman pregnant. Zero change to their body. Change to lifestyle optional.

Girls turn into women. Get pregnant. Literally hosting another being. Feel sick, feel tired, get stretchmarks, give the baby a bit of their brain. Hopefully survive the experience . Stretched, maybe stitched or prolapsed.
Breasts get massive but change from sexual and become food supply. Then shrink and look different.

Middle age

Men get older. Become less strong, lose their hair.

Saggy balls ( because they’re an old bloke and they had great balls in your youth).

Women get older. Stop periods. Weird moods, brain fog . Less strong, more fat, more hair, more pain in joints . Less money because of being pregnant and then staying home with offspring.

Saggy tits (because they’re an old woman and we know it because they now have ugly flat tits).

JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 21:13

Waitwhat23 · 21/01/2024 21:09

MOJ stats.

Thank you.

It's nice to be able to learn a bit more on the topic

Waitwhat23 · 21/01/2024 21:09

JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 21:05

All that stat shows is that a very high proportion of criminals who ID as trans are sex offenders

Do you have a source for this? I'm sure would expect a TRA to back up a sweeping statement like this so I think you should do the same.

MOJ stats.

Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?
JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 21:05

All that stat shows is that a very high proportion of criminals who ID as trans are sex offenders

Do you have a source for this? I'm sure would expect a TRA to back up a sweeping statement like this so I think you should do the same.

MrGHardy · 21/01/2024 20:51

I already said that I cannot make it any more obvious. Just re-read what I wrote and maybe think about it for a bit. Otherwise I'm done.

JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 19:22

Waitwhat23 · 21/01/2024 19:10

You asked Sinnerboy for sources at 2.45pm this afternoon. It being a Sunday, they may have been busy in the meantime?

I don't know specifically what sources Sinnerboy was referring to but this was a source which came up -

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-023-00358-x

(Edited to sort out the source link as it had initially included highlighted text link)

Edited

Thanks I'll take a look.

It's easy to give the benefit of the doubt about sources when you agree with the opinion, isn't it..

JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 19:19

JanesLittleGirl · 21/01/2024 19:07

Interesting, thank you I will have a look.

Waitwhat23 · 21/01/2024 19:10

JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 18:52

Does anyone have any sources for the wealth of evidence on transitioning not being a good treatment for gender dysphoria?

People who aren't gender critical are always being asked for sources, often repeatedly, and any provided are ripped to shreds so it's interesting that this comment was left unchallenged. Especially by such unbiased critical thinkers....

You asked Sinnerboy for sources at 2.45pm this afternoon. It being a Sunday, they may have been busy in the meantime?

I don't know specifically what sources Sinnerboy was referring to but this was a source which came up -

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-023-00358-x

(Edited to sort out the source link as it had initially included highlighted text link)

JanesLittleGirl · 21/01/2024 19:07

JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 18:52

Does anyone have any sources for the wealth of evidence on transitioning not being a good treatment for gender dysphoria?

People who aren't gender critical are always being asked for sources, often repeatedly, and any provided are ripped to shreds so it's interesting that this comment was left unchallenged. Especially by such unbiased critical thinkers....

Quick search on Google:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 18:52

JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 14:45

There's a wealth of evidence from a large number of studies, which show the exact opposite to be the case

Do you have any sources @SinnerBoy@SinnerBoy? Not trying to catch you out I'm genuinely interested

Does anyone have any sources for the wealth of evidence on transitioning not being a good treatment for gender dysphoria?

People who aren't gender critical are always being asked for sources, often repeatedly, and any provided are ripped to shreds so it's interesting that this comment was left unchallenged. Especially by such unbiased critical thinkers....

DerekFaker · 21/01/2024 17:55

PriOn1 · 21/01/2024 16:29

And are the Dweebs enjoying the discussion?

Has this thread stimulated an equivalent debate there about the reasons why some women would throw their daughters under a bus in order to pander to a man who claims he’s a woman and chooses to compete in women’s sporting competitions?

Lol!!!

PriOn1 · 21/01/2024 16:29

And are the Dweebs enjoying the discussion?

Has this thread stimulated an equivalent debate there about the reasons why some women would throw their daughters under a bus in order to pander to a man who claims he’s a woman and chooses to compete in women’s sporting competitions?

Waitwhat23 · 21/01/2024 15:13

DerekFaker · 21/01/2024 13:32

Just FYI the Reddit dweebs are watching this thread.

That is a surprise.

shocked philip j fry GIF
ArabellaScott · 21/01/2024 15:02

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 21/01/2024 14:58

I think there is an inference to be drawn, but it’s easy to assume lazily that the inference is that 48% of TWs are violent or abusive. I don’t think that is true; the subset of TWs who are in prison are not likely to be representative of all TWs. So it would not surprise me if someone skimming through this thread assumed you were saying that TWs are all terribly violent and abusive, even though that is absolutely not what you said.

All that stat shows is that a very high proportion of criminals who ID as trans are sex offenders.

That is instructive, but it in no way demonstrates that 'all TWs are violent or abusive', of course.

Perhaps the problems are exacerbated by people reacting to certain words or discussions without properly reading/listening. Some people consider any discussion at all of transwomen in relation to sex offences, for example, is 'transphobic'. I'm not being hyperbolic, people have quite literally said one shouldn't talk about this issue at all, not ask questions, not quote stats, not speak on the subject. For fear of somehow triggering 'transphobia'.

This is how we end up with a 'sacred caste' - a group that is considered untouchable. And if that's a group one can identify into, the risks are probably very clear, yes?

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 21/01/2024 14:58

SinnerBoy · 21/01/2024 12:04

Bolleauxxxx · Yesterday 21:14

+ +But my issue is with those who would present that as evidence that the entire trans female population is harmful and dangerous which is untrue. + +

i don’t think I’ve ever seen the assertion that all are predators on here. And I’ve lurked a loooong time.

I agree, many posters go out of their way to qualify posts on the subject by saying, for instance, "Not all, but a sizeable subset." If the prison statistics are accurate and 48% of transw prisoners are in prison for violent and sexual offences against women and children, isn't there a certain inference to be drawn?

I think there is an inference to be drawn, but it’s easy to assume lazily that the inference is that 48% of TWs are violent or abusive. I don’t think that is true; the subset of TWs who are in prison are not likely to be representative of all TWs. So it would not surprise me if someone skimming through this thread assumed you were saying that TWs are all terribly violent and abusive, even though that is absolutely not what you said.

soupycustard · 21/01/2024 14:58

The discussion about crime statistics is interesting as well in the context of the post (sorry can't find it now) about people liking to follow rules. I can't recall this very well as I studied Feminism many moons ago, but I think there's an argument that women aren't just more law-abiding then men, they're also more 'rule-bound' generally, be that due to nature, nurture or a mix. So when institutions like the police appear to back the position of TRAs, I suspect that pushes many women into complying.

JemimaFuddle · 21/01/2024 14:45

There's a wealth of evidence from a large number of studies, which show the exact opposite to be the case

Do you have any sources @SinnerBoy@SinnerBoy? Not trying to catch you out I'm genuinely interested

PriOn1 · 21/01/2024 14:39

@Josette77 I want to attempt to answer a question you asked:

”I guess I'm wondering how people see this improving? Do trans people have to no longer exist in order for people to feel safe"?”

For me, there are two significant parts of modern transactivism that I object to and I will first comment on each and how I think the situation could be improved. Then I will address your second question separately.

Firstly, I object to the lobby that has influenced the medical profession to move from safe medical practices for children (watchful waiting) to unsafe treatment protocols (affirmation, puberty blockers, mastectomies, cross sex hormones).

There needs to be a return to evidence based medicine and bodies like WPATH which is largely a lobby group, need to acknowledge that fact and the fact that they are unable to present an unbiased view. You wouldn’t expect those with uncured anorexia to develop and lead medical groups creating treatment plans for anorexia patents and those whose gender dysphoria is unresolved to the point where they felt the need to undergo medical transition should not be creating and pushing treatment plans for those with gender dysphoria.

Secondly, I reject the current transactivist demand that men who claim they are women are actually women and should automatically have unfettered access to all women’s spaces and be treated as women in all circumstances.

That situation could easily be improved by an acceptance that, while those men would prefer not to be men and would rather not use men’s spaces, that doesn’t mean they are women and should have access to women’s spaces. If they are uncomfortable in men’s spaces, then they need to campaign for their own, separate spaces, as women and disabled people have done before them.

As for ”Do trans people have to no longer exist in order for people to feel safe"?”

That word exist always strikes me as odd. People can, within reasonable limits, change their bodies as they wish. They can also claim an identity that is in conflict with reality without making any physical changes.

I can’t stop people’s from doing either of those things, and their existence doesn’t affect me or make me feel unsafe as long as they don’t demand “rights” that impinge on mine.

While men who claim they are women are demanding access to women’s spaces and the powers that be are enabling them to enter those spaces (and in particular try to ostracize women who object) then THAT is what makes me feel unsafe. So those who transition (and those whose internal feelings cause them to claim they are trans) don’t need to stop existing.

They do need to stop insisting that they should be treated as if they were the opposite sex and come back to a more realistic position where it’s accepted that they wish they were a different sex, but that there are some times when they understand that sex matters and in those circumstances and spaces, it needs to be acknowledged that they should either be accommodated with their own sex or in separate spaces.

DerekFaker · 21/01/2024 13:35

"Anyone educated" <snort> 😂

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/01/2024 13:33

I'm sure they are. Enjoy lads!

DerekFaker · 21/01/2024 13:32

Just FYI the Reddit dweebs are watching this thread.

Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?
Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?
SinnerBoy · 21/01/2024 12:23

Josette77 · Yesterday 22:19

I believe transitioning is typically the treatment with the best outcomes for trans people.

Can In ask what has led you to believe that? There's a wealth of evidence from a large number of studies, which show the exact opposite to be the case. There have been stories linked to men and women, who very much regretted having surgery, as well as reports that, managed by talking therapy, about 80% of people who think that they are trans, when young, will grow out of it and grow into adults, accepting their sex.

StephanieSuperpowers · 21/01/2024 12:08

But all that aside, there I'd no subset of men who have a qualifying pass into women's spaces. Not your lovely gay friend, not your transwoman friend. This is of course what women will focus on - there is no subset of men who can come in because men, as a demographic group, are excluded for good reason and we don't have to submit to emotional blackmail to change that, even if you think it's super mean.

SinnerBoy · 21/01/2024 12:04

Bolleauxxxx · Yesterday 21:14

+ +But my issue is with those who would present that as evidence that the entire trans female population is harmful and dangerous which is untrue. + +

i don’t think I’ve ever seen the assertion that all are predators on here. And I’ve lurked a loooong time.

I agree, many posters go out of their way to qualify posts on the subject by saying, for instance, "Not all, but a sizeable subset." If the prison statistics are accurate and 48% of transw prisoners are in prison for violent and sexual offences against women and children, isn't there a certain inference to be drawn?

Bolleauxxxx · 21/01/2024 11:36

it's all sparkles and rainbows and acceptance - no thought of when things go wrong, of when they are knocked unconscious and end up getting the wrong treatment for their female body or are arrested on holiday and find themselves being thrown in a cell with a bunch of men

exactly @Wellies54

weve all been through that toddler stage of them insisting they were a dog. I love to encourage imaginative play, but I’m not taking them to the vet if they start running a temperature.

This insistence on being kind…. Maybe it’s my ND thinking, I understand the social concept of white lies. I can even manage them if I’m concentrating….but how the fuck is a huge and foreseeably risky thing like THAT in any way kind?

i strive to be civil, compassionate, reasonable but I’m really not sure about kindness.