Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?

With my ex estranged band members, I believe it is so they get the cool gigs with the younger bands and so they aren't dismissed as the middle aged women that they are. They know exactly what is going on and there is no way they believe TWAW. It is impossible to get anything creative be it arts or music up in Scotland unless you are willing fully comply.
I agree with other PP's on here that alot of it is privilege . Other women are afraid of losing the jobs especially in relatively lower paid or public sector industries such as in the NHS ,teaching or social care. It's easier to just go along with it than fight it in case you risk getting suspended . Let's face it ,the trade unions are hopeless and I doubt they would defend a woman sacked for "wrongthink". I sense that alot of women are scared of losing their jobs through some lies being trumped up against them. I would be surprised if this hasn't happened already.

I just despair that even after all this time, kindness (aka women/girls supporting men/boys in whatever they want at any cost to themselves or other women/girls) has such a hold on young women and girls. How have we not yet managed to teach them that they should aim for fairness rather than kindness?

I recently read a 15 year old's essay on whether or not it is fair for trans women to compete in women's sport. She laid out the facts around greater height and strength, and the important differences that male puberty brings very well, pointing out that these differences make it unfair to women.
Her conclusion? That trans women should be welcome in women's sport, because it would be very unkind to exclude them.
Critical thinking? I despair.

• I think these are linked in the Transgender Trend articles above.

Good luck, Jemima! It's probably worth reading up on Finnish, Swedish, and recent Dutch changes in their approach, as well as the UK's. These are all with regard to children, rather than adults.

I have a good reading list for next week.

I will definitely read the research rather than the sites that share it, baring in mind that people often set up studies to show what they believe to be true.

Thank you to everyone that provided links.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic Yesterday 14:58

I think there is an inference to be drawn, but it’s easy to assume lazily that the inference is that 48% of TWs are violent or abusive. I don’t think that is true; the subset of TWs who are in prison are not likely to be representative of all TWs.

Ah, I didn't intend it to read that 48% of TW are violent / sex offenders, just that there is almost certainly a higher than average number of them in their group.

Thanks to all who provided links in my absence!

Again, this is not about trans people, per se.

This is about safeguarding. And power. And freedom of speech. Women's rights. Evidence based healthcare. Politics.

I fully understand that many people are not involved/interested in politics and those issues, but it's quite important that the issues are understood as not being 'about trans people'.

I can pretty much promise you that the politicians using 'trans people' as a way to pretend they are broadminded do not actually really care all that much about those trans people.

Re. sports: "A lesson in inclusion and acceptance for a girl is much more valuable than any trophy. Or maybe your daughter should train harder."

Not sure if this has been said yet, but one answer to that is "it is damaging for girls who have trained hard and learned excellent technique to be defeated by someone whose technique is much worse than their own but has the built-in advantages of a male body."

(See interviews with Canadian coach Linda Blade)

All the evidence is weak, but from the evidence that does exist we can conclude that transitioning children is a truly terrible idea. My position on children has shifted from "maybe there are some children who would benefit from transition, as long as we are very careful to figure out who they are" to "the downsides are so severe and the evidence of benefit is so weak and it is impossible to separate those who are more likely to benefit from those who aren't .... so we can't justify doing this to children at all". (I should add that my own DC is an adult so this doesn't affect me so directly)

And for both adults and children it's only the psychological evidence that is weak. The evidence of the physical downsides is very, very strong. So big and so strong and so obvious that it's like an elephant in the room - people refuse to see it or talk about it. Or count it up and publish the results in clear numbers.

If your child takes puberty blockers followed by cross-sex hormones then they will be irreversibly sterile. If you take cross sex hormones as an adult then (depending on your sex) you will have various physical health problems in the long term and a shortened lifespan, and you will decrease or lose your fertility. If you have genital surgery then you have all the risks and downsides of extreme surgery on a very vulnerable part of your body. You will have a high risk of needing repeated surgery. You will have a high risk of urinary problems. You will be sterile. If your breasts are removed you will probably not have sensate nipples and you will certainly be unable to breastfeed your baby.

And if you do change your mind about any of these things they can't be undone.

The lack of interest in physical function is shocking.

And as long it's not your child. I didn't know it was going to be mine.

I'm alright Jack (Jackie?)

I can just about understand that. What I would say is that this could affect anyone. Healthcare is one of the most deeply affected areas, for example. And then there are the children.

So long as it's just happening to other women then, it's all ok and no one's problem.

Jeez. I feel like the last actual (as opposed to identified as) socialist.

I’m GC and I agree with you but none of it affects me on a personal level. I’m not homeless, or in prison and no one I know is competing against trans women in sports. I do care about those who are but frankly the cost of living and battling to work when there are train strikes are bigger problems in my life.

There are loads of things to worry about, yes. Some women have the luxury of not needing (yet) to worry about this one, others are not so lucky and it's mostly more vulnerable/minority groups of women being marginalised and oppressed without it mattering to other women.

The point will come when having lost legal rights and equality and recognition in law will come to be something to worry about for all women, and I anticipate at that point a lot of privileged women getting snotty about 'why didn't someone tell me to say or do something when there was still time to turn this around?'.

And I won't have a lot of sympathy.

Can I suggest you read the links, not the site? I did. The links leads to actually research and TT just provides the links. Maybe there is research that shows the opposite, research can be setup in such a way that it proves what you want it to prove, but it then get picked apart pretty quickly. I don't think there is research that shows the opposite, even badly put together, because transactivists only refer to very old, badly put together research based on biased surveys and nothing with substance. If they can't find the research, it doesn't exist.

I think it's because most people don't have the headspace for this issue. And that's ok. There are loads of things to worry about. Israel-Gaza. Climate Change. Systematic racism. Inequality, cost of living. Health care and education. etc. No doubt some people are very concerned about this, but most people (me included) don't see it as that big an issue. In real life, I know a handful of trans people (not well).

I am done being respectful. Society has made it clear that as a woman I do not matter.

So I see no reason whatsoever that I should respect society.

Other, respectful women have tried, they have tried to debate, carefully and respectfully and look where that has gotten them and us.

No, the time for respect and politeness has passed. Men do not respect women. They do nothing but take. If we want to hold on to ANYTHING for ourselves and our daughters we are going to have to fight for it.

No more kind, nice words and middle ground. It does not work.

The question isn't does transitioning work but why people feel gender dysphoric in the first place. Its well documented that men in countries that have made homosexuality illegal have transitioned instead. That would count as a success for trans where in fact the end goal is to become " not a gay man" rather than "woman"
Are men more or less wanting to be female in a place where females have less stereotypical differences in terms of presentation. Are they more or less likely in countries where women have very little social status.

I think the reality is that most of the evidence available is poor quality, suffering from a failure to use appropriate trial methodology, and weakened further by the lack of long term follow-up for something that is a life-long condition.

So it may not be possible to demonstrate that transitioning isn’t a good treatment for gender dysphoria, but there is little to no evidence that it is. Doctors have been acting as if there was unequivocal evidence that transitioning is effective and uncomplicated when there isn’t and that is reckless in the extreme.

There are certainly studies showing that those who’ve undergone medical transition still have much higher suicide rates than the general population. The Swedish study showed that back in 2011.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

There will be more recent studies now, I expect, but I haven’t been keeping up to date as much as I used to.

You may find the site biased but the links go to evidence. Of course, evidence can be cherrypicked. All I can suggest is that you read as widely as possible and draw your own conclusions.

I imagine you've already read the interim Cass Report?

Thank you. I will look at this but obviously this site is pretty biased!
I find it quite difficult to find much that isn't biased on this subject.

Transgender trend has good collections of links to evidence/studies/research, with commentary.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

https://www.transgendertrend.com/current-evidence/