Another GC employment tribunal. Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #2

Not that I've seen, and nothing on tra Reddit, either. Odd.

I'm blocked by most TRA types on Twitter. Any noise from any of them over this case yet?

It's like being eviscerated on cross examination by your nan.

Only 2 witnesses for the claimant. 3 for the respondent.

I think it definitely stopped her from being impartial with regards the disciplinary procedure. Pressed post to soon, given the ill child and the disciplinary were going on at the same time.

Agree. It’s so important to get right but even the most committed Be Kinders can’t do it

I used to recruit people to work in our RCC, & if someone like Roz had applied we would've grabbed her with both hands. She sounds wonderful from her evidence & I hope she's happy & fulfilled (& treasured) where she is now.

During the session, when I was typing the bit where MR talks about her child I fudged it, not wanting to include information that shouldn't be included. But given what she has tweeted - I wonder if it is relevant that one of the things MR was doing, to help explain how long everything in the process took, was that she needed to look after her adult son for some time, who was ill and needed support.

The customer is the purpose of your work not an interruption of it.

Quite right too!

Remember about 15-20 years ago, when there were signs on busses by colleges that said 'It's all about you!'? It seems an awful lot of people took that to heart and still believe it.

This. (Ie Ereshki's post at 18:27 if the reply function doesn't work.) If she is reading, or ever does read this thread - I hope she realises how well she comes out of it, regardless of the future verdict. Not only her courage in bringing the case and her cool sensible self-possession under cross-examination, but her humility and grace in how she responded to other people. Her warmth and care shines through - exactly the sort of person you'd be desperate to work with or be counselled by - and it is testament to how utterly unfair the world is that it was not even acknowledged, let alone reflected by the people around her. I have to say I felt some very VC (rather than NVC) impulses, hearing it...

As the front of the milk delivery book on my milk round used to say:

The customer is the purpose of your work not an interruption of it.

Just reading through this..it's batshit crazy...what on earth has the world come to...

ERCC appears to be run primarily to validate the feelings and serve the needs of those working there, rather than provide support to women who have been raped.

It looks that way to me too. To be honest, the staff of ERCC remind me of being a waitress and resenting when customers came into the restaurant and we had to do something other than gossip, drink tea and smoke, and do our actual jobs.

You're not on the "one morally right course", Mairi. Far from it.

Me too, Beetle. The description of how sensitively she emailed AB and how much AB threw their toys out of the pram over it made me rage.

I feel so sorry for Roz. She seems to have gone into the job with the best of intentions, was all about people working together and getting on, was respectful of people's identities and pronouns etc and didn't realise she'd walked into an organisation that gives no fucks for the service users and is all about validating the oh so 'oppressed'

And she thinks "sex based rights create division" as I quoted from her tweet below.

And for why she could only see bad intentions and hidden meanings in RAs attempt to get clarity for service users.

RA would have

If MR had a trans child that explains a lot of her reluctance to agree that a NB person has a sex or to agree that some people might view MW as biologically male

'Shaking with horror'.

How do these nincompoops get through the day?

It does seem unlikely. But knowing how much these people surround themselves only with others who agree with them and how much misinformation exists about the law, it wouldn’t entirely surprise me if she was ignorant of Forstater. Perhaps this is what comes of living in an echo chamber and why companies keep making the same mistake over and over.

Thanks to everyone who has kept us updated. I can't follow in real time but when I can get to my screen I'm glued.

If anyone disappears, they may have fallen into my open mouth. The cynical incompetence of ERCC is proving much worse than I suspected it might be.

If you are on a mission to end anyone being able to deny that a man is any sex he tells you he is, in all circumstances, then yes, women's prisons and refuges and rape crisis centres are your first things to capture, own and forcibly redirect.

It's about the blowing up the whole concept of same sex being ok, about there ever being circumstances in which a woman can be permitted to say no. About anyone else's needs or reality ever allowed to be anything but useful or evil. One or the other. Hence the faintly sadistic, sweetly faux caring bullshit trying to make it 'good' for women to force them to have men in the spaces where they talk about their rapes, to cover up that no, the sole interest being served is that the man wants to be there with no one allowed to tell him he's behaving badly and make him leave. With everyone enabling his chosen fiction. How very powerful that must feel.

And yes, to pp: anything with 'woman' on it has been intentionally targeted for capture, with either ownership or destruction following. Including groups supporting women suffering with chronic illnesses that only women can suffer from because their existence was an uncomfortable reminder that sex continued to exist and define women.

Blow it up. Sod that those ill, distressed women were left without support and lost their group, break it! It's hateful for existing, because it challenges the preferred reality of men who matter.