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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New NHS children’s gender clinic hit by disagreements and resignations - Guardian

30 replies

DisappearingGirl · 18/01/2024 07:43

Guardian article

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/18/new-nhs-childrens-gender-clinic-hit-by-disagreements-and-resignations

"A string of resignations from a team preparing for the launch of the new NHS children’s gender clinic has further complicated plans to open the services in April."

"Disagreements over the text of a training module for medical recruits to the new gender service have prompted NHS England to remove the training materials project from a team at Great Ormond Street hospital and outsource it to the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges."

"Great Ormond Street is working with the Evelina children’s hospital and the South London and Maudsley NHS trust to pilot the first of several regional hubs that will take on the work previously conducted by the Tavistock clinic."

"Some clinicians working on the new training materials are understood to have felt it important to affirm a patient’s gender identity and believed patients could benefit from medication. Others, some of whom resigned their posts, stressed the need to adhere to Cass’s recommendations and take a holistic, “exploratory” approach."

New NHS children’s gender clinic hit by disagreements and resignations | NHS | The Guardian

At least four experts quit Great Ormond Street team after disputes over text of training module for recruits, sources say

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/18/new-nhs-childrens-gender-clinic-hit-by-disagreements-and-resignations

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/01/2024 11:21

"Is the CQC simply a tick box regulator or do they asses the medical evidence supporting (or not supporting) private medical clinics?"

Unbelievably the CQC is a Stonewall Diversity Champion, thus their first priority is to get Stonewall points and plaudits rather than safeguarding children or assessing the quality of provision.

NotBadConsidering · 19/01/2024 08:38

Very true. I’ve made the point repeatedly in the last week or so that the NHS is a failed system. It allows these people to prosper because there’s no accountability or functioning governance.

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2024 07:36

NotBadConsidering · 19/01/2024 04:52

What’s amazing to me is that the final Cass Report isn’t even out. We have had the Interim Report. The final report was expected “late 2023” and hasn’t eventuated yet. So why on earth, knowing that this is going to be published with recommendations, would any clinic be approved beforehand?

The only explanation I can think of is that gender woo clinicians are going to carry on with their blind affirmation model irrespective of what the final Cass Report will show. They don’t give a fuck.

How many reports have there been about scandals in maternity departments? Apparently there was going to be significant cultural change. Dick all has happened.

Why?

Because no one high up the food chain is ever actually held responsible. Minor front line workers are thrown under the bus but no one ever looks at those higher up who carry on and get their next job.

NotBadConsidering · 19/01/2024 04:52

What’s amazing to me is that the final Cass Report isn’t even out. We have had the Interim Report. The final report was expected “late 2023” and hasn’t eventuated yet. So why on earth, knowing that this is going to be published with recommendations, would any clinic be approved beforehand?

The only explanation I can think of is that gender woo clinicians are going to carry on with their blind affirmation model irrespective of what the final Cass Report will show. They don’t give a fuck.

UtopiaPlanitia · 19/01/2024 00:57

I saw Dr Kelly speaking in the recent RTÉ news programme about the treatment of gender distressed children’s in Ireland and he gave me the creeps. Something about the way he was saying that everything’s fine with giving puberty blockers/ hormones to kids really gave me the chills. Unlike the other highly qualified and experienced Irish doctors who were very concerned and were warning about the negative effects of this practice, Dr Kelly seemed almost blasé about the whole thing. To me, it made quite the contrast.

Edited to add that I’m amazed that this new clinic was approved by the regulator, especially given all the recent evidence calling hormonal treatment into question. Is the CQC simply a tick box regulator or do they asses the medical evidence supporting (or not supporting) private medical clinics?

BlessedKali · 18/01/2024 23:25

Yeah. I think public support would fall dramatically.

OldCrone · 18/01/2024 23:21

'The new NHS children's sex change clinic for transsexual children'

DisappearingGirl · 18/01/2024 23:20

BlessedKali · 18/01/2024 22:58

we need to stop using this frigging 'gender' word, and revert to sex.

Then we have ' The new NHS children's sex clinic'

And it becomes really clear how fucking absurd this is.

Yes, or

'The new NHS children's sex change clinic'

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OldCrone · 18/01/2024 23:20

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/01/2024 22:56

Glinner has posted footage of Aidan Kelly giving a very revealing talk in which he lays out the experimental nature of so called "medical care" at GIDs for these vulnerable children. He openly admits that children's healthy bodies are being harmed, that they're turned into life long medical patients, their fertility is compromised, they're too young to comprehend issues around deliberately becoming infertile and a whole lot more. He blows apart the notion of ethical medicine, "first do no harm".

He's speaking at a Tigala conference - the Independent Guardian ad Litems Agency. Children in care having been relentlessly targeted by transactivists for many years.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-banality-of-aidan?utm_campaign=email-post&r=ahi4t&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Thread from 2020 about this talk (the talk was in 2018).
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3950421-Talk-by-Dr-Aidan-Kelly-Tavistock

BlessedKali · 18/01/2024 22:58

we need to stop using this frigging 'gender' word, and revert to sex.

Then we have ' The new NHS children's sex clinic'

And it becomes really clear how fucking absurd this is.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/01/2024 22:56

Glinner has posted footage of Aidan Kelly giving a very revealing talk in which he lays out the experimental nature of so called "medical care" at GIDs for these vulnerable children. He openly admits that children's healthy bodies are being harmed, that they're turned into life long medical patients, their fertility is compromised, they're too young to comprehend issues around deliberately becoming infertile and a whole lot more. He blows apart the notion of ethical medicine, "first do no harm".

He's speaking at a Tigala conference - the Independent Guardian ad Litems Agency. Children in care having been relentlessly targeted by transactivists for many years.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-banality-of-aidan?utm_campaign=email-post&r=ahi4t&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

The banality of Aidan

Dr.Aidan Kelly's presentation on 'gender healthcare' is somehow both dull and frightening

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-banality-of-aidan?r=ahi4t

TempestTost · 18/01/2024 17:37

I don't think any of this stuff will be sorted until the medical community accepts overall that the whole thing is a medical fraud. In the same way they came to realize lobotomies were never legitimate treatment.

But as for the affirmation only types - I don't believe they are thinking mainly in terms of health or science. They see it in terms of a human rights formulation, and transitioning is seen as a right, so medical questions are set aside.

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2024 17:29

Soontobe60 · 18/01/2024 17:19

No it’s not. It’s very much the affirmation gang from the Tavi. The cynic in me might point out that more money is to be made from prescribing lifelong medication and referring to private surgeons than there is from watchful waiting.

Edited

Privatisation of NHS child abusers and homophobes.

Crackin'

And the parents are positively all for it and paying for the privilege.

Soontobe60 · 18/01/2024 17:19

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 18/01/2024 11:53

@Chersfrozenface Do we know if it's being run by the decent ex-employees of GIDS, with an exploratory focus, or the zealots? It does say they have to have a minimum of 6 appointments for assessment before any treatment, so that's good. With the way the NHS works, I'd imagine they'll be offloading referrals onto this place pretty quickly under "right to choose".

At least it doesn't sound like young people will be getting a prescription after an initial assessment of 40 mins with a clinician who knows nothing about the patient, unlike what I heard other services doing. And at least the minimum age is 16 which is a lot less awful than 11.

Edited

No it’s not. It’s very much the affirmation gang from the Tavi. The cynic in me might point out that more money is to be made from prescribing lifelong medication and referring to private surgeons than there is from watchful waiting.

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RedToothBrush · 18/01/2024 16:37

Chersfrozenface · 18/01/2024 12:03

It is headed by Aiden Kelly, formerly of the Tavistock

There is a MN thread on him from August this year here
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4888958-interview-with-dr-aidan-kelly-genderplus-on-times-radio-wendnesday-735

I don't doubt others will be able to providf further insight

This is just proving that the Tavistock scandal needed individuals to be held accountable and struck off for dire practice.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/01/2024 12:09

Crouton19 · 18/01/2024 08:12

Why is there no leadership on this? Is anyone in control in the NHS?

This is an area of child medicine that until now has been dominated by trans extremist pressure groups determined to transition mentally unwell children, no matter what. The lack of evidence, data and the experimental nature of medication is steadily being exposed (hence the WHO decision mentioned above).
The lobby groups are (painfully slowly and with limited success) being prised away from this. The NHS (like all our institutions) are completely compromised having been cheer leaders for an ideology to the detriment of children.
Now the catastrophic nature of the experimental medication, surgery and extreme mental health challenges it nurtures is exposed, they're trying to reverse ferret by saying as little as possible. They're all professionally compromised by their enabling.

Chersfrozenface · 18/01/2024 12:03

It is headed by Aiden Kelly, formerly of the Tavistock

There is a MN thread on him from August this year here
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4888958-interview-with-dr-aidan-kelly-genderplus-on-times-radio-wendnesday-735

I don't doubt others will be able to providf further insight

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 18/01/2024 11:53

@Chersfrozenface Do we know if it's being run by the decent ex-employees of GIDS, with an exploratory focus, or the zealots? It does say they have to have a minimum of 6 appointments for assessment before any treatment, so that's good. With the way the NHS works, I'd imagine they'll be offloading referrals onto this place pretty quickly under "right to choose".

At least it doesn't sound like young people will be getting a prescription after an initial assessment of 40 mins with a clinician who knows nothing about the patient, unlike what I heard other services doing. And at least the minimum age is 16 which is a lot less awful than 11.

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 18/01/2024 11:45

It's really disappointing that it sounds like the ones who would have protected the children from over-zealous idiots were the ones who have resigned.

If we must have a gender service (and I'd rather we didn't do anything gender related on the NHS at all, I have a feeling an awful lot of them would get better very fast if there wasn't anything available to pander to this social contagion), it should be one that's fit for purpose, that's exploratory as a first resort and only looks at interventions further down the line after multiple appointments and full patient history, screening for other conditions etc, has been done by a continuous clinician who knows the child and their life. They should follow the well-established principle of "titration" as used by pharmacists for all other medications/interventions - the lowest possible effective intervention.

Maybe the best approach would be to put two opposing clinicians together on each case to make shared decision-making so they have to listen to each other and children get protected by design rather than luck of the draw.

LentilFaculties · 18/01/2024 11:38

Why do the clinicians who believe in gender with such religious zeal think the Tavistock closed?

DisappearingGirl · 18/01/2024 08:46

Yes, I've no idea how you develop training or a treatment plan when you have:

  • two factions with entirely different and strongly held views on how best to manage it
  • different views on what trans actually is and whether it is fixed or changeable
  • almost no good quality research evidence
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Crouton19 · 18/01/2024 08:12

Why is there no leadership on this? Is anyone in control in the NHS?