Lucy Worsley - Ladykillers

Indeedy. Helena Kennedy (pah) and now banging on about LGBTQ community (no just a boring old lesbian, Luce).

I had seen there were lots of new programmes in the series and popped them on in the background (more in hope) but they are just crap.

Ah, they have form for trying to silence the lesbian perspective, that explains it

You need say no more @elspethmcgillicudddy .

You need say no more . . .

It's a joint production with the open university.

Just saying....

@Str8talkin Was it this one? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0c258w1

I just listened to it again & what they're discussing is more whether she'd be convicted today, rather than whether she was actually guilty. And I didn't get the impression anyone was defending her actions, just suggesting possible ways of interpreting them, though it sounded a bit tongue in cheek; but the dead are still dead & depriving them of life was cruel, so some people might find it a bit offensive. Have another listen?

What happened to Shedunnit? I used to skip about in that & I thought I'd heard everything - just noticed there are some new episodes.

I'm sure they went to the abortionist out of desperation. The key point for me, however, was that she was charging them vast sums for the procedure. If she had been doing it out of the goodness of her heart, she'd have charged a nominal sum. In the 19th century, lots of people were making money out of desperate women by offering dodgy abortion services.

Yes, and how they framed it as her carrying out an agreed plan, as if the victim had somehow consented to being murdered. I think they described it as a Romeo and Juliet type plan.....but the murderer, despite ample opportunity did not then kill herself.

The lesbian couple episode rubbed me the wrong way when the majority of the discussion centred on how in love the murderer was and how lost she felt, instead of highlighting that this was domestic violence at the hands of an ex-partner. No different or less heinous than if the murderer had been male in my opinion.

@RoyalCorgi re: the abortionist, the women who sought her services would be seeking to end their pregnancy any way they could. She was the closest thing they had available to healthcare - in those circumstances, what would you rather do? Visit an abortionist who has experience of previous procedures, or try and do it yourself with no experience? It was massively dangerous either way and highlights exactly why women need access to safe, legal abortion.

Don’t they see that people drop out at specific points?

Yep. I was pissed off about this, too. Shame because I really enjoyed it and have had some brilliant reads from it.

I've been really enjoying the podcast - I listen at bedtime and sometimes during the night as I have terrible insomnia - but I got to this point and like you, thought "WHAT!?"

Didn't listen to the rest.

I feel like this about exhibitions that are supposed to be about women. Not only are the notes to the side tedious and semi-hectoring rather than educational, they're very rarely actually about women.

Shedunnit went the same way so I have up in that.

Why do they have to ruin every bloody thing that is just for women?

I had the same reaction. Was out running and actually stopped I was so cross at one point. The usual hyperbole was trotted out with the predictable "gosh, that's SO awful" response...I eye rolled hard.

If felt very jarring and out of step with other episodes. It felt very much like a point was being forcibly made.

Other episodes have been so thoughtful, and nuanced, and compassionate. I really enjoyed the episode with Kate Mosse where they discussed whether women who have done heinous things should be remembered, despite their crimes. KM made an incredibly valid point that history is all typically about remembering men, always, and never limited by whether they were good or socially acceptable. Women are 50% of the population and should be given equal weight in the history books, and that should not mean they are sifted out if they fell short in some way.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/27/lucy-worsley-bbc-lady-killers-backlash-male-drag-artists/

I think the Mail nicked it from the Telegraph? Direct quotes from this unusually short thread (given the length of so many threads on here) 😄

You got mentioned in the Daily Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13015647/Lucy-Worsley-fire-feminist-BBC-Lady-Killers-podcast-episode-lesbian-invisibility-shifts-focus-discrimination-male-drag-artists.html

I think this was the last series where there was a crime where a lesbian was murdered. Some fool came on and banged on about how she was murdered because of her ‘gender identity’. FFS

I skipped that bit too. Apart from anything it really jarred anyway (in terms of sound, ambience and voice) and didn't fit, felt crow-barred in!

#28 Forbidden Love

Overall it's not as interesting as the others because it lacks their depth. Basically two girls were at school together & then one has an obsessive love for the other & kills her. I was listening while doing something else & had difficulty remembering which girl was which!

Which episode is it? So I know which one to skip!

Quite what a man has to tell us about lesbian invisibility,I don't know,as I skipped forward until I got back to the historical discussion again.

Oh, thank goodness it wasn't just me who did that!😂

This episode was so disappointing. There were interesting things they could've gone into (e.g. the obsessive nature of teenage love, or how lesbians actually coped in those days with the expectation that they'd marry a man).

When it sticks to the topic, this is an excellent programme. I already knew some of the cases, but the background information/wider discussion was always interesting or thought-provoking - or in the case of the escaping enslaved woman, heart-rending & anger-inducing.

I hope there'll be another series, & I hope it gets back on track.