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Girls "left at mercy" of grooming gangs in Rochdale, England because of failings by senior police and council bosses, damning report says

289 replies

DerekFaker · 15/01/2024 10:22

No surprise to anyone on here, I would guess. Those poor girls.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67967919

Girl

Police left children at mercy of grooming gangs in Rochdale, report says

A review criticises a series of failed investigations by Greater Manchester Police in Rochdale.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67967919

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ScrollingLeaves · 17/01/2024 16:38

This is a 2017 report quoting the Chief Prosecutor in that Rochdale case, Nazir Afzal.

Manchester Evening News

Rochdale grooming prosecutor Nazir Afzal calls on Muslims to 'stop blaming victims of child sex abuse'

By Katherine Bainbridgs 2 July 2017

On the eve of a new documentary about the scandal Mr Afzal has written an article criticising the attitude of some of his fellow Muslims towards the issue of grooming

The lawyer who brought the Rochdale grooming gang to justice says Muslim communities ‘must do more to fight a cancer of violent misogyny’.

Nazir Afzal initiated the prosecutions of the sex trafficking gang after he became Chief Crown Prosecutor in the north west, which eventually led to the jailing of nine gang members.

He overturned a decision by the Crown Prosecution Service not to prosecute and asked police to look again at the issue of grooming in Rochdale.

On the eve of a new documentary about the scandal Mr Afzal has written an article criticising the attitude of some of his fellow Muslims towards the issue of grooming, saying ‘too many people blame the victims rather than the perpetrators’.

Writing for the Mail on Sunday Mr Afzal said: “There are parts of our country now where violent misogyny is equally accepted and even celebrated. What worries me is that these are largely Asian areas with little appetite in the community to do anything about it.

“There’s no escaping the fact that Asian and Pakistani men are disproportionately involved in localised street grooming of vulnerable young girls. Our jails are filling up with Muslim prisoners and yet the crimes they’re committing have become a taboo subject.”

Mr Afzal says he has tried to engage with Muslim audiences to talk about how to deal with these crimes, but doing so is ‘frustratingly difficult’.

He added that there is ‘sterling work’ being carried out in the Asian community to challenge misogynistic views, ‘but too frequently those groups making a real difference exist without much support from the wider community’.

He added that ‘communities hold the key’ and has called on Muslims to ‘help break a cycle of ignorance and stop it from happening in the first place’.

“It sickens me that there are people in the Asian community who don’t want women to be empowered, they don’t want women to support each other and would prefer women to be oppressed and do what men want them to do,” he said.

“Forcing the Muslim community to do more to deal with these problems has to be the starting point to drive grooming gangs out of existence.”

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rochdale-grooming-prosecutor-nazir-afzal-13271237

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/01/2024 16:35

The political capture of agencies in Rochdale was a critical issue. They failed to tackle the abuse because the fact that the Rochdale abusers were Asian or British Asian and the victims were White was considered to be politically sensitive. It was one of a number of reasons that contributed to their lack of action in protecting children. The same pattern has been replicated in other areas of the country.

This. These are facts which have been established multiple times. The only reason people like to pretend they are in dispute is because they don't think people should be allowed to consider them. They need to be considered.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/01/2024 16:31

Well I'm not shocked either but surely it's 'not in the spirit' and therefore breaks talk guidelines? Also I thought threads about threads were banned.

I'm pretty sure they are.

Beowulfa · 17/01/2024 16:24

I was just about to post the link to the 2013 parliamentary report that ScrollingLeaves has above. The conclusion of the section on race (page 57) reads:

There is no simple link between race and child sexual exploitation. It is a vile crime which is perpetrated by a small number of individuals, and abhorred by the vast majority, from every ethnic group. However, evidence presented to us suggests that there is a model of localised grooming of Pakistani-heritage men targeting young White girls. This must be acknowledged by official agencies, who we were concerned to hear in some areas of particular community tension, had reportedly been slow to draw attention to the issue for fear of affecting community cohesion. The condemnation from those communities of this vile crime should demonstrate that there is no excuse for tip-toeing around this issue. It is important that police, social workers and others be able to raise their concerns freely, without fear of being labelled racist. The communities that these offenders come from must also play their part and do much more to acknowledge, report and tackle the issue. In particular community leaders and Imams have a vital role to play.

AdamRyan is not posting in good faith when labelling posters racist for referring to official reports into this particular set of convictions.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/01/2024 16:20

Shoppingfiend · 17/01/2024 16:10

Both I would say.

Both, plus social workers being overloaded, lack of effective multi agency working and the girls being seen as stroppy and "responsible for their own misfortune" rather than as victims.
What AR doesn't realise when they spout their ill informed allegations is that some of us were working in the field at the time. In the light of what happened, there was a lot of multi agency training across the country highlighting the institutional flaws and demanding more effective multi agency working. Similar patterns were being seen in other areas. It wasn't just race but race was an important factor and not just in Rochdale.

ScrollingLeaves · 17/01/2024 16:17

I see tgat link did not work. I was trying to link this:

House of Commons Home Affairs Committee
Child sexual exploitation and the response to localised grooming

Second Report of Session 2013–14

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmhaff/68/68i.pdf

ResisterRex · 17/01/2024 16:14

I'm sure it's NITS, yes

pronounsbundlebundle · 17/01/2024 16:11

ResisterRex · 17/01/2024 16:07

Shocked I tell you. Shocked.

Well I'm not shocked either but surely it's 'not in the spirit' and therefore breaks talk guidelines? Also I thought threads about threads were banned.

Shoppingfiend · 17/01/2024 16:10

SidewaysOtter · 15/01/2024 10:52

It’s all very well saying sorry, but WHY did this happen? Were the girls ignored because of their backgrounds (troubled and /or poorer backgrounds), or because they were female? Or did no-one want to point a finger at the perpetrators for fear of being called racist for acknowledging their attitudes to women and girls?

Edited

Both I would say.

muddyford · 17/01/2024 16:09

'Asian' is mealy-mouthed too. No Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Indonesian etc among the criminals.

ResisterRex · 17/01/2024 16:07

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/01/2024 15:57

Just to note that @AdamRyan has copied their ridiculous post slandering most of us as racist onto a context free thread as evidence that GC women are white supremacists.

Shocked I tell you. Shocked.

ScrollingLeaves · 17/01/2024 16:06

The Rochdale Case
2013 Parliamentary Report

Chief Presecutor for the Nirth West of England
Nazir Afzal reviewed tge case which lead to the prosecutions at that time.

If you read here, page 3 paragraph 3 d) it is clearly stated that the men involved were Asian or British Asian and the victims were white.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/search?q=About+publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmhaff/68/68i.pdf&tbm=ilp&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiclNza5eSDAxVikCcCHeLIDscQv5AHegQIABAE" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/search?q=About+publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmhaff/68/68i.pdf&tbm=ilp&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiclNza5eSDAxVikCcCHeLIDscQv5AHegQIABAE

Girls "left at mercy" of grooming gangs in Rochdale, England because of failings by senior police and council bosses, damning report says
nationallampoons · 17/01/2024 16:06

@Ereshkigalangcleg she copied and pasted one of my comments too.

I'm not walking on eggshells, and I don't care if I'm labelled as racist.

These are innocent children, they must be the priority. Why do they go for white teenage girls? What is the reasoning?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/01/2024 15:59

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/01/2024 15:20

but to deny that the attacks on these girls wasn’t racially motivated in many cases is just denying fact, and the victim’s testimonies to boot.

Exactly.

The political capture of agencies in Rochdale was a critical issue. They failed to tackle the abuse because the fact that the Rochdale abusers were Asian or British Asian and the victims were White was considered to be politically sensitive. It was one of a number of reasons that contributed to their lack of action in protecting children. The same pattern has been replicated in other areas of the country.
Acknowledging this is not racist - nor does it mean that other ethnic groups are not child abusers. There must be no "sacred castes" - no groups of men (or women) who are exempt from scrutiny. Where there are specific racial aspects of abuse (the majority of the victims were white girls) then this must be acknowledged and tackled.
We repeatedly let children down by denying reality and it's shameful to see it happening on a feminist board.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/01/2024 15:57

Just to note that @AdamRyan has copied their ridiculous post slandering most of us as racist onto a context free thread as evidence that GC women are white supremacists.

Grandmasswag · 17/01/2024 15:45

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision good point.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 17/01/2024 15:36

Look, I really don't have time for any of this right now, but I am willing to stand on a soap box and shout one thing:

Rapists and abusers are horrible!

I assumed we all knew that. So why do people bring out the smelling salts at the suggestion that rapists might also be racist? Yes, they are. White ones fetishise and abuse women from other races. So do all the others.

If you come from such a monocultural area that you've never heard men (particularly teenage boys) of all ethnicities sounding off about what they think of women from other ethnicities, that's your knowledge gap. Don't make it our problem.

I don't know why people feel this need to insist that sexually abusive men must be paragons of fairness and justice along all the other possible axes of oppression. I guess it's misogyny; if you don't truly see women as people, you'll remain convinced that a man can be a serial rapist and a kind, non-discriminatory pillar of the community. Obviously he might still respect everyone equally regardless of colour, creed, culture, nationality or disability!

PurpleBrain · 17/01/2024 15:33

I think pre internet days and they days when cameras followed our every move and forensics weren't as good as they are now , it was easy to get away with stuff like this . Now it's all caught up with them . All lot of the Police were arrogant and lazy back then and would just shove things under the carpet rather than open a can of worms plus it just made their lives easy .

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/01/2024 15:20

but to deny that the attacks on these girls wasn’t racially motivated in many cases is just denying fact, and the victim’s testimonies to boot.

Exactly.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/01/2024 15:15

"it's about close knit Pakistani Muslim communities...they were business owners, restaurant owners, self employed taxi drivers, and their male relatives. They were powerful in their community."

Why have you quoted me? This is the reality of what happened in Rochdale. Say what is "racist" about my merely pointing it out, or withdraw your unfounded accusation.

Grandmasswag · 17/01/2024 15:10

AdamRyan I understand the sensitivity and that commentary can slip into racism but no one making sweeping generalisation or suggesting that all Asian men are groomers or anything, which I think is what you’re trying to take out of what you’ve read.

I think it’s more helpful to think of the victims race (in this case white) being a key factor. Many were raped by men of all different nationalities/ ethnicities but to deny that the attacks on these girls wasn’t racially motivated in many cases is just denying fact, and the victim’s testimonies to boot. If it’s not where then are the Asian victims? Given that it’s a very multicultural city. The whole point was that these men wouldn’t/ couldn’t treat women from their own communities this way. They viewed white girls as dirty slags who were asking for it. Why don’t you actually listen to the victims? The file on 4 interviews are a good start.

IcakethereforeIam · 17/01/2024 15:06

Are these the the type of accusations the Police were apparently worried about?

AdamRyan · 17/01/2024 14:59

Well obviously yes. 1997 was the tail end of the Major government. Everything was broken.

My problem is, this is a complex issue spanning class, misogyny, underfunding, patriarchal values etc etc. It's been researched a lot by both sides and so far there is no convincing data that the ethnicity and heritage of the offenders caused these crimes.

Yet a lot of people seem happy to simplistically buy into it, and parrot it back
"The police were scared of racism"
"If I said what I really thought about the way white girls were sacrificed en masse on the alter of the Left’s obsession with multiculturalism while the police & officials deliberately turned a blind eye in order to protect ‘community cohesion’, I would be banned from MN for life, so 🤐."
Quoted and agreed with a lot
"We need to say it how it is. These are white, vulnerable children being targeted by southern Asian males" - "Everyone knows this in the NW don't they? It's so fucking commonplace"
"There are many teenaged boys, in my experience as a foster carer, all Pakistani or Bangladeshi, who were being trained up as pimps. They could pose as “boyfriends “ who inducted the girls through rape and later threats to families and carers, and the girls were passed on to the older men once their will had been broken"
"And how many of these rapists have been given rights in the basis of their ‘family life’ in the U.K. and allowed to stay with wife and kids?"
"They are not just Pakistani but from the Mirpur/ Azad Kashmir region. Most of them are related. It's a learned pattern of behaviours. The account from the woman on another thread mentioned her groomer also being abused by other relatives. It's all bound up with honour culture which is all about policing your females (getting a Talking To if you are seen out talking to Other Boys) because you don't want to end up like those girls. Because what are those girls ever good for except getting an income from?"
"Easier to dismiss the white girls than the asian grooming gangs"
"I wonder how many ribbons and parades, days of training and campaigns the police, and special ‘staff’ all these police officers, children's homes, schools and social services will have to ‘reeducate’ them to do their bloody jobs?"
"it's about close knit Pakistani Muslim communities...they were business owners, restaurant owners, self employed taxi drivers, and their male relatives. They were powerful in their community."

This is so racist.

Meanwhile GC posters are hurt by other feminists observing that there is lots of overlap in GC spaces with right wing, white supremacist rhetoric. Well there it is, in glorious technicolor. Just disgusting.

CrowBlack · 17/01/2024 10:40

Ok is it's been said before but tv programmes back in the 1990 s / 2000s showed what was going on

LoobiJee · 17/01/2024 10:36

From that article Jean Hatchet article.

“She stressed that it was in 2004 that children began to provide information and says,
Everything being done now should have been done then. It’s not like you’re waiting for a new bit of tech to make it possible, all it would have taken is the right people actually giving a damn.”

2004

Twenty years ago.

Two decades.