Poor Things (film)

@Babla would that be as empowering as "sex work" (not work at all, in fact cash for rape) or porn . If it's like the book, it sounds rank and Gray spent half his life pissed as a fart up the West End of Glasgow just like most of his adoring devotees. ( I fully expect this to be removed, but needs to be said ).

I really enjoyed it. I felt like it was laughing at men really - they’re all pathetic, vile, needy creatures which Bella exposes with her frank voice.

Men’s weaknesses are put on display constantly - they only want Bella for one thing, even “nice” Max who proclaims he loves her when he can’t even have a proper conversation with her - and taking control of her own situation as her intellect expands and uses men as they use her; e.g. Wedderburn warns her not to fall in love with him and has a reputation as a user etc. but he makes himself crazy when she doesnt fall in love with him and is only using him “for now. For fun”. All of them know her brain has been replaced with that of a child but they don’t care. She has a desirable female body, who cares about her mind. That’s what I took from it.

All of the control and imprisonment and expectation that women’s bodies aren’t their own…I thought it was great.

I've also worked with children and young adults with neurological injury, and that's what the trailers made me think of immediately. Given that women and children with disability are often sexually abused, I definitely have no desire to watch a film based on an erotic and 'clever' presentation of that abuse as if it's not something happening all around us every day. Don't feel any need to watch the film first before deciding that the premise is repulsive.

I might be interested in reading the book. It sounds like it has more layers to it.

I don't think Alasdair Gray would have claimed to be the world's leading feminist but I think at least he was aware of misogyny and double standards. A History Maker is an interesting book too, set in a matriarchal society. It's worth knowing that he was a bit of a contrarian and might have been writing in a modernist, anti-realist style to draw attention to societal norms and their flaws.

Here ends my lecture 😂 - sorry!

Thanks, that sounds like useful context.

The trouble with the film is that it doesn't include the wrap around chapters from the book where the apparently normally developed and not brain transplanted Victoria/Bella claims that it's all nonsense made up by a weak and pathetic man (McCandless). Which makes it more clear that it's about men projecting onto women and wishing to shape/control them and how women are viewed when they break from that mould. I did enjoy it, but I had that context in my head from reading the novel.

Ew. thanks for this thread. Sounds like the usual man does porn/sex stuff for his own (and other men's) gratification, and sells it by saying it's art. No thanks

😂How do you know (& why are you so desperate to defend it?)? I sat through 'Napoleon' last week & I didn't enjoy that! Just because people sat there doesn't mean they liked it. But the fact that people walked out definitely means they didn't.
A - because, on that thread, many more posters said that they enjoyed it, and I thought that was worth pointing out.
B-I'm not 'desperate to defend it' as you so charmingly put it. This is an ongoing discussion on whether to see a film or not. Is there a limited amount of how many times one can post on a thread? A what made you head girl of the thread?

But my original point still stands. I've only ever seen one person give up on a film & walk out (& it was obvious what sparked it). For two posters out of a small number to report the same thing seems significant.

Sorry, misread 'posters' as 'people'. As you were.

😂How do you know (& why are you so desperate to defend it?)? I sat through 'Napoleon' last week & I didn't enjoy that! Just because people sat there doesn't mean they liked it. But the fact that people walked out definitely means they didn't.

Interestingly, there's another thread in which two posters mention people walking out of the film.
But a lot more posters who enjoyed it

She was also a producer.

It was an inch every two days I think. Max notes that her hair grows an inch every two days and I took this to show the passage of time that had lapsed not as symbolic of her womanhood per se. However as Victoria she wore her hair pinned up as fashionable for the time period and free flowing as Bella. Obviously symbolic in this way.

Interestingly, there's another thread in which two posters mention people walking out of the film.

That's pretty reductionist. I'm sure that it would be more important to her that she has a great body of work under her belt, and can choose what she likes. And she obviously liked this.

Exactly. The best & fullest reviews here are from people who didn't rate it. And the reasons they give for not rating it are things that would put me off, too. I'll save my time & money for something I actually want to see.

I guess I'm biased because I saw it last night, and loved it. Even though I am aware of the issues.
If Bella had been played by an unknown actress, starting on her career, I would have felt it was exploitative, but Emma Stone (who is brilliant) is an established actress and had no need to take it on if she was unhappy with it.
Honestly, just watch it, them make up your minds. Es is amazing, and Mark Ruffalo is so funny. It's worth seeing for the dance scene alone.

I’ve seen some hack reviewers referring to this as a feminist take on the Frankenstein myth- which really grinds my gears when you consider who the fuck wrote Frankenstein, and who her mother was

That's infuriating!

Even deciding whether you want to watch / read something involves a bit of prejudging.

I don’t think I’d enjoy this film and I find sex scenes boring whatever the context so I’m not going to watch it.