Evidence re GC women and white supremacism please?

And the reason this is leading to more black women than white being accused of being male is???????

Why on earth would you be posting on here if you don’t know? A trans women is a woman with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. Look up the EqA. You really don’t need me to tell you.

The Black males who keep winning women's athletic events (DSDs, not trans, FTAOD) look like men though. I'm White and can easily distinguish them from Black women, who do not look at all masculine to me.

Hard to deduce racism or its absence from a single data point, though.

It is men who are racing in women's races that make people question whether when reports say 'women' do they really mean men.

The words are right there.

Racism is black people's fault now?

Or because the men who seem to be the ones winning female athletics races are quite often black?

I've seen talk of experiments which show that people have more difficulty differentiating between the sexes of people of another race than they do for people of their own race - seen it in terms of e.g. 'this is why white people might more readily think a TW of another race is a woman & not trans'.

If this is true, & given that the UK is a mostly white-populated country, does this partly explain why more comments are made about black athletes than about white athletes? Do black observers ask the same questions about white athletes?

There's still the issue of whether these questions should be asked out loud/on SM.

Not quite. It happens at all because of men. But the people doing it do it more to black women because of white supremacy.

Yes, so the people doing it should take responsibility for their own racism which is leading them to question black women more than white woman.

This happens because of men surely, and their relentless overtaking of women's sports?

If men never did this, would anybody question the sex of a runner?

I agree, it does happen disproportionately to black women. As I said upthread, not all women are harmed the same.

Ah DadJoke I'm glad you're here, I was hoping you could tell me what a transwoman is? I asked you twice on the other thread but maybe you didn't see

I have no idea who the person you cited is but something happening once to a white person isn't proof that it's not racist, epecially when it happens disproportionately to black women and plays into racist stereotypes that have been around for hundreds of years.

GC people being racist about an athlete in a sport where transgender people are excluded is the fault of transgender people? Thank you for providing an example for the OP.

Did Martina Navratilova, for instance, not get called masculine and ugly? I was a kid in her hey day but I'm pretty sure she did. It's not defending racism to say that men inserting themselves into women's spaces has massively increased issues of women being suspected or criticised for not appearing feminine enough, in women's spaces.

Black women have been demonized for their looks and characterized as ugly and masculine for hundreds of years. That thread isn't the first time it has happened.

If this was really just about the men participating in women's then white women would be equally scrutinized but they are not.

Instead of trying to defend racism and pass the blame for it on to others then perhaps think of the impact this kind of rhetoric has on black women and young black girls. As as feminist I would assume this would important to you.

I agree with you that not all women are harmed equally, this is a perfect example of that. But if men had never been allowed to say they are women, and insert themselves into women's sports, would this instance have occurred? Maybe it would, it seems much less likely though.

As much as I hate the men who have ruined women's sports, they are not responsible for the racism exposed on that thread.

All women are not harmed equally. Here you can an example showing black women bearing the brunt of issue and white women excusing themselves of being racist because men have behaved badly.

I didn't call anyone racist or make any arguments. I just linked to a thread that shows what happens when GC views collide with the way society sees black women.

Deep Green Resistance, The GrayZone, Jimmy Dore, UK Column, The majority of Labour Party members, The Communist party, The SDP party, The Duran, Garland Nixon, Sabby Sabs, The Workers Party, That guy from the Green Party, Green Party members, Due Dissonance podcast; the list is endless.

This is fair comment.

Trust and faith that competition is fair has been totally undermined. The creditability, integrity and worth of elite women's sport has been hugely damaged. That has ramifications for women's sport at all levels.

Worse still this impacts most on black women because racism IS a factor and it's black women who are under greatest scrutiny because they are most likely to fall under suspicion as their faces and bodies are least likely to conform to western driven ideas of feminity. We are literally looking for those stereotypical physical features a woman has. This has narrowed what we deem to be feminine and accept as feminine despite an ideal of being critical of gender, even if you decide to overlook the racism.

It is all round depressing. It is likely to decrease participation at all levels, given girls less to aspire to and have role models (who is going to want a role model who there is talk that they they might be a man about?) and black women and girls will avoid sport most because they will want to avoid being scrutinised most. It will also serve to make women and girls feel like they have to conform to gender stereotypes more - with those that don't becoming distressed and potentially mentally harmed because of it.

Nothing about that thread is good.

That is the fault of the mediocre males who have trashed women's sports, the sporting bodies who have allowed it, and the MSM who have obfuscated about it in obedience to an ideology which harms women.

It harms all women.

No, that thread is horrifying. The athlete in question had her sex questioned by posters simply because she doesn't appear feminine. (And, by the way, is breaking athletic records and is black.) They aren't doing that to white athletes at the same meet who are also breaking records, are they? Why? Because they, unlike her, have more markers of femininity.

And there we have it. When you run out of arguments, you call people racist.

And here we have it. A group of people from this forum speculating that a black woman is a man (despite being 5 foot 3) because she doesn't look like a white woman.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5021135-another-athletics-one