Evidence re GC women and white supremacism please?

In your mind, does that make everyone he interviews align with his view about immigration? And does that make his interpretation on what is happening with one thing tainted for everything he says? He has been a media commentator for decades. Is everything he says then to be dismissed?

In a world of shits, Tucker Carlson is one of the biggest. He does have a big following in the US, though.

It seems some people think KJK is ‘nazi adjacent’ because she has spoken to a fair number of people who do hold views that are White supremacist; like Tucker Carlson platformed her on Fox before his fall from grace

Is Tucker Carlson a white supremacist?

It seems some people think KJK is ‘nazi adjacent’ because she has spoken to a fair number of people who do hold views that are White supremacist; like Tucker Carlson platformed her on Fox before his fall from grace, and in Oslo she had a photo taken + a natter with Lysglimt Johansen who does hold racist views.
Even if she’s a middle aged Mum; lots of middle aged mums have been nazi’s up through the years.

KJK is not a nazi, though. Not at all. She is not racist and she does not hold White supremacist views. But she does speak with people with fundamentally opposite viewpoints and she has stated that she will continue to accept almost any platform given.
I admire that.

I am very adjacent to evangelical christians, even if I disagree with some of their stances we agree on others and respect eachother. Am also very adjacent to people from heavy criminal backgrounds. We talk. We certainly don’t always agree. Stuff they have done will be abhorrent. But how will they be exposed to other ways of living if I don’t talk to them?

Does this now tar my GC views (biological facts) with a racist/misogynistic/violent brush?
No.

I do joke about now being fascist, nazi, racist etc. And I’m sure there are people who believe these labels are accurate for me, and that I am a horribly bigoted transphobe. To me that is evidence of a narrow way of thinking, and I can’t do much about it. I have little desire to appease these people, and can only politely say I disagree.

When it comes to blackface/drag I can only say Thank you to @asterel for confirming what I had a vague recollection of.

I believe murder is wrong.

I think many alt right Christian Americans hold this view. Does it matter that we agree, or that their reasons for doing so are rooted in religious doctrine whilst mine are rooted in a secular moral code? Does the fact that alt-right believe the same mean that I am heinously misguided or even, simply, wrong in everything I believe because our beliefs intersect on this issue? If a Labour party member also holds this belief, does it mean they have suddenly crossed over to the dark side?

It’s all rather pathetic, frankly.

Next, it will be fascist to enjoy coffee because Rees-Mogg has been seen in Costa buying a latte macchiato.

(5) it’s a lie that men can become women

And I don’t care who I share that belief with.

Honestly, my heart sinks to hear that Morrissey may have admitted he thinks humans can't change sex.

Who was it who said “The right wing see women as private property, the left see them as public property”?

@PinkFrogss

For Americans in particular, what were they saying about for roe vs wade? It speaks a lot about their motivations.

You mean American conservatives?

They were obviously happy about Roe vs Wade being overturned because they see abortion as immoral.

I assume you are correct that conservatives have different motivations to GC feminists to some degree on this issue, but are their motivations bad?

I'm guessing they are motivated by things like:

(1) It's obviously unfair in sport
(2) It's a crazy new ideology that the left is trying to impose on everyone
(3) It's unfair/harmful to destroy single sex spaces
(4) It's harmful or very questionable anyway, to be transitioning minors.

Those motivations would overlap a lot with GC feminists.

Now for conservatives, of course they would see the "left" as their enemy anyway, so they would have tribal reasons to be against this stuff; and they would also often view the LGB movement as a cultural enemy, and so this is just the next step in something they have been fighting for a long time.

And for those motivations, they are probably on a different side to the GC feminists.

Conservatives will have a different view of "gender roles", and the reality of gender, but I honestly doubt that makes much of a difference here. The objections to trans-activism, I suspect, for conservatives, are just on a different level to worrying about whether gender roles are "good", "natural", or "sexist".

Someone could suggest that conservative motivations are "genuinely transphobic", whereas GC motivations are focused on "women's rights", but it's not clear to me that mainstream conservatives are really using different rhetoric or arguments compared to GC feminists.

When it comes to violence against women, I don't think conservatives really focus on it. But they do focus on crime in general, and sex offenders will certainly get a mention. So they tend to want a tougher approach to crime just in general, even if they aren't spending their time on conviction rates for rape.

There is no evidence, but mud sticks. I was at a Jeremy Corbyn talk last year and a bloke selling ' The Socialist' outside, described KJK as being ' Nazi adjacent '. I think if you're describing a middle aged mum like this, you've really lost the plot!

The things about Linehan and Morrissey is surely the same discussion being had about GC and the relationship to other views. Because someone holds a similar view on one topic it does not associate him/her with all the other topics the other might hold.

We need to deal in the argument alone, acknowledging where an argument intersects with other arguments and drawing boundaries. KJK also makes the point clearly, that if you don't speak to people who disagree with you, then there is zero opportunity to influence in a positive direction.

Slightly off at a tangent maybe, sorry! I have seen no evidence of association between the majority of UK GC women and right wing views particuarly. The two things are not associated except that some right wingers will hold GC views. The opposite is not necessarily true.

The point about men is good - I think they will naturally come from being GC from a very different viewpoint simply because they have different things to be worried about.

I can’t think of many other areas of feminism where men are so prominent. Where are these same men when it comes to other fights for women? Are they speaking up against male violence against women, are they using their platform to bring attention to the disgustingly low rates of rape conviction? For Americans in particular, what were they saying about for roe vs wade? It speaks a lot about their motivations.

As for ‘suck it up’ what do you mean by that? You don’t need to accept his assessment of Morrissey but how ‘pure’ do you need people to be before they are allowed to speak on this topic? Will you be like an opposition politician who refuses to support a bill you agree with purely because it was proposed by the other party?

By suck it up I mean being told it's not important because they happen to be GC or sympathetic.

I'm left of centre but admire Tory MPs like Kemi and put aside differences on say economics to do so. I won't tolerate racism or denial of it from anyone though. I am increasingly concerned about the racial politics of some men who consider themselves a part of this fight.

What Morrissey said about Chinese people is deplorable and it’s disappointing that Glinner has not acknowledged that.

Morrissey has been a prick since the 80s. This is not a revelation. Few people in the Manchester music scene have good words to say about him.

It's all about Marr.

Completely agree with you. Unacceptable and racist.

I suppose the question is does that make him forever untouchable. Or is he a man who said a wholly unacceptable and racist thing that you would strongly challenge him on, but may say other things that you agree with.

I suppose that’s what it comes down to, where do you draw the line. You’re never going to 100% agree with other people about absolutely everything, but you’re also never going to 100% disagree with someone else about everything either.

For me, a lot of it comes down to if they are making money or otherwise profiting off something. So for example if I know someone to be racist I would not pay to watch their material, or watch it in a way that would give them money (E.g YouTube video with ads) but that doesn’t mean I’m necessarily opposed to the content itself. I watched Matt Walsh’s what is a woman documentary on some dodgy site and was happy to do that although I do not like him and would not want to give him or the daily wire money. On the other hand I was more than happy to donate to Rachel Meade.

I think it also depends on the balance of their views, if by helping them increase their platform so they’ll have more engagement with their GC views that’s one thing, but if they are also going to use that platform to spout racist and misogynistic views then I am not going to do anything to promote them.

No idea about Morrissey. But knowing humans can’t change sex is such a fundamental fact that everyone knows and that includes saints and sinners. Lineham has suffered a lot for speaking up against gender ideology but we don’t need to pretend he is faultless. No one is. It doesn’t mean he is any less correct about not being able to change sex.

As for ‘suck it up’ what do you mean by that? You don’t need to accept his assessment of Morrissey but how ‘pure’ do you need people to be before they are allowed to speak on this topic? Will you be like an opposition politician who refuses to support a bill you agree with purely because it was proposed by the other party?

Of course that's racist.

Morissey has said a lot of stupid things, and from a brief Google, some totally unacceptable things.

You've nailed it

Racism in GC circles in my experience comes from men who think they're allies and they double down when challenged. I'm not white (British/Chinese) and I have not been made to feel uncomfortable by any GC women because of my race.

Not overly keen on Graham Linehan tweeting last night in praise of Morrissey and saying that there is zero evidence that the latter is racist. I mean he called Chinese people a "subspecies". If that's not racist I don't know what is. I'm as much a human being as Graham Linehan or Morrissey are.

NC as no doubt his ladies in waiting will come to defend him and tell me why I should just suck it up. 🙄

I am curious since comparing 'drag' to 'black face' is a legitimate comparison. Both are a) pretending to be what one is not and b) giving a racist/sexist interpretation of what they are.

Wow that’s some quality journalism right there. 😂