Labour Students attack on Rosie and Tonia has escalated

We're not the anti inclusion ones, it's those who worship sexist stereotypes like you do that are anti inclusion Mishy. We are happy to include all women, no matter how they identify.

Proper inclusion would be all males in male spaces without pushing out transwomen. Just think how great it would be if transwomen knew that they could use the gents and be properly included with all the other males. Think of the wonderful diversity of presentation that could be achieved if you lot stop saying that dresses and long hair go in one and trousers and short hair go in the other

THIS. Everyone should be very worried about what could be headed our way if Labour gets in.

Did you actually just refer to Keir Starmer as 'Stammer'? 🙄

What struck me is that

• an award for gender equality (which previously would have been focused on sex equality, specifically women) has been awarded for something trans related

• and that the first of the two activities under the 16 days of activism banner was about male victims of domestic abuse. The 16 days of activism is about male violence against women and girls (commemorating the Montreal murder of 14 female students), not about men as victims. But rebranding it as “gender-based” takes the focus away from women. Of the men murdered related to intimate partner violence, most are killed by another man.

The other thread about semantic gentrification is relevant here too.

@Blankdiary my son is a constituent of Rosie and every time I bring it up (the way she has been treated) he reminds me of the covid 'noshing' debacle and the fact it was quite public knowledge there.

I don't think you understand the word 'inclusion'.

Skimming through that University of Warwick link, strikes me once again that the gender boom has produced so many fat salaried jobs and sinecures. It's a ill wind... 😛

The short version of the above would be that as a non-jewish, straight Aryan wealthy men like Eddie should have been pretty safe in Nazi Germany. Jewish, gay cross dressers who had to resort to prostitution were far less fortunate. No surprises.

The statement from Labour students clubs includes this quote. "brutally targeted the trans community, deporting many trans people to concentration camps and wiping out vibrant community structures." So where does this claim come from and is it evidenced? (Several lost hours later I have answers).

You can find it at a favourite student source (Wikipedia) here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide. Where its expressed as: According to the Museum of Jewish Heritage, the Nazi German government brutally targeted the trans community, deporting many trans people to concentration camps and wiping out vibrant community structures.[6] This area of research is underdeveloped and the number of transgender victims is unknown.[7][8] Heather Panter, writing in the book Genocide and Victimology, noted that the number of transgender people targeted by the Nazis was likely lower than the number of gay people targeted.[9]

So perhaps many is quite a long stretch? This link to the New York based museum is to the blub for a panel talk in which Dr. Anna Hájková, Associate Professor of Modern European Continental History at the University of Warwick spoke. (Note that Warwick Uni is one of the signatories of the student Labour clubs statement and Dr Hájková heads up the Queering University Programme). The panel talk is recorded and I was intrigued enough to listen. Its not surprising that they are talking about fragments and echoes in terms of this research. Its definitely true that Weimar Germany was a diverse and welcoming culture for all sorts of outsiders and the Nazis may have been responsible for 'wiping out vibrant community structures' which really helped the trans community live open lives (its fascinating stuff and worth exploration). This is what the panel talk was about really. There were three case studies presented by Dr Hájková and two were gay and Jewish, the other was half Jewish and not initially picked up and transported. Given what I have just written this was not the talk that perhaps was expected from the blurb. No real evidence of brutal targetting or deporting many because the people transported could well have been targetted for other reasons which are well known already.

If you are interested in work by Dr Hájková note that she was fined 4000 euros in 2000 for infringing an injunction prohibiting her from making false claims about an alleged (by her) affair between a holocaust survivor and an SS guard. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/dec/21/court-fines-historian-over-claims-holocaust-survivor-lesbian-affair Given this experience you might expect her to be pretty keen to only publish well evidenced claims and be perhaps cautious in making claims such as that which appears in the students' statement. I wonder what she feels about that quote being used as though it was well-evidenced fact. Its sad that university students are using this as evidence. They must know better. At the very least follow the damned links.

This little rabbit warren also led me to the University of Warwick Queering University Programme website which is amazing (and not in a good way). https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/academy/activities/learningcircles/transqueerpedagogies/queeringuniversity/

This lot should really be concentrating on their studies, there are exams coming up.

FWIW Tonia is my MP and is a really good constituency MP who is open to discussion with people she disagrees with and I respect her as a person and a politician. I know people who have had robust debates with her but always found her to be fair minded and open to being challenged.

I have less positive opinions of Rosie as I'm an immuno compromised woman who has a dim view of those that flouted the rules during COVID. However I think this level of anger over liking a tweet, even if you don't like the content, is a bit much. Also I like tweets sometimes because I just think they're funny or even I disagree with the point I might appreciate the logic of the argument or the time they've taken to reply.

Bitter people have gone through my tweets before and apparently I'm a traitor to the cause because I once liked a picture of a transwomans cat. To which I say get a life you absolute losers and the same goes for Labour Students.

Hang on, Mishi had specifically made the point that they were pro inclusivity so they obviously weren’t being discriminatory.

you’re probably just too old to understand them.

@fromorbit I don't know if you have seen it but I watched a brilliant programme on BBC 4 storyville called Nelly and Nadine. It is amazing. About Ravensbruck and two women who feel in love there. One was the daughter of the Chinese ambassador.

Further dismantling safeguarding will result in more traumatised girls and young women who are extremely likely to become the "TERF"s of tomorrow.

If Mishy & co really hope that one day women won't care whether the people sharing their and their daughters' spaces have a dick or not, I suggest Mishy & co campaign to stop male pattern violence.

You first lads: show us you can treat us like we're human, then we'll consider whether we want to treat you like you're not a threat.

There’s nothing democratic about forcing the belief that men can magically become women down people’s throats.
Also there are many many young people who also know GI ideology is nonsense. It’s not just us old ‘Pearl clutchers’ you know.

1. The thing about young people, is that they quite quickly become older people. The 'pearl clutching' older generations you refer to brought us the sexual revolution, legal abortion, civil rights, antiwar riots, first and second Summers of Love, women's rights and gay equality.
2. The privileged middle class university cohorts that populate Labour Students are in no way representative of most young people.

Anyone else think that the timing of this co incides nicely with the Post Office debacle?
Ummm... culture wars much?

if Keir Starmer wants to show he’s on the side of women he will discipline these people for misogynistic bullying. But he won’t. He’s perfectly happy for women in his party to be harassed on the grounds of their perfectly reasonable beliefs.

he’s weak and a coward.

There's just been a (now deleted) thread on AIBU in which a trans activism supporting poster resorted to agism; nothing particularly exciting, if you missed it though. The poster stated that they were looking forward to seeing 'terfs' die out like the dinosaurs. Plot-twist? The poster was literally old enough to be one of my parents.

I imagine it's the same on this thread, too.

I bet is the same bunch chanting anti semitic slogans. Yet they called Nazi to whoever does not agree with them.

Oh, Labour wouldn't have been getting my vote anyway, and this latest "statement" does nothing to change that position.

I'm not sure about " Nazi Revisionism" but what does spring to mind is the Hilter Youth.

^^

Mishy doesn't explain, he just asserts. Evidence is for bigots.

No point in waiting for a reply then? That's disappointing.

I'm sure we've all seen the famous cache of photos of cross dressing senior Nazis. (I'm guessing that's what Glinner was referring to in the original tweet.) Izzard certainly wouldn't have been unsafe on that score, so it's all rather confusing. I was hoping that Mishy could enlighten us!

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