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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Milli Hill receives apology from Doula UK for bullying from its members

54 replies

DerekFaker · 10/01/2024 12:38

Doula UK apologise to me for distress caused by online bullying.

And they are one of a growing number of organisations who are seeing sense.

https://millihill.substack.com/p/doula-uk-apologise-to-me-for-distress

Doula UK apologise to me for distress caused by online bullying

And they are one of a growing number of organisations who are seeing sense.

https://millihill.substack.com/p/doula-uk-apologise-to-me-for-distress

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DerekFaker · 11/01/2024 10:51

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 11/01/2024 08:27

As that's presumably aimed at my comment - Zoe Williams made a point of writing about her sexual history in her columns for the Evening Standard. It was pretty much a staple of her writing for them in the 80s. As for 'discussing' it, I'd rather not, thanks. My reaction at the time was 'shut up, we don't want to know this, thanks, don't you have anything else to say?' And still is.

Edited

It was blindingly obvious what you meant to anyone without an agenda.

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MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 11/01/2024 08:27

suggestionsplease1 · 10/01/2024 18:54

I wonder if Zoe Williams will receive an apology from Mumsnet for bullying from its members?

Her sexual history being discussed, called an idiot, sinister wishes that she gets to experience the consequences of her support for trans rights....

Feminism at its best eh.

As that's presumably aimed at my comment - Zoe Williams made a point of writing about her sexual history in her columns for the Evening Standard. It was pretty much a staple of her writing for them in the 80s. As for 'discussing' it, I'd rather not, thanks. My reaction at the time was 'shut up, we don't want to know this, thanks, don't you have anything else to say?' And still is.

BezMills · 11/01/2024 08:16

Quite right that she got an apology

DerekFaker · 11/01/2024 07:38

*By public domain I mean thinks like newspapers etc with large circulations. Which is COMPLETELY different to posting personal opinions on social media.

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DerekFaker · 11/01/2024 07:30

suggestionsplease1 · 10/01/2024 21:40

So you agree then, Zoe Williams should receive an apology, and you'll be pleased with that, because no woman should be targeted for online bullying.

That's good that you have a consistent position, because there are other posters here that seem to be inconsistent, and seem to be pleased that Milli Hill has received an apology, but don't think that Zoe Williams should receive one.

As I said in a previous post that you quoted and replied to, I hadn't read the thread, so no.

I have now read the thread. I was somewhat surprised to see that you haven't posted in it at all - why is that, I wonder?

One poster has said she can't take ZW seriously since she wrote columns about 'shagging her way around London' - that's not shaming her for her sex life, that's shaming her for making a column about it. I personally don't like columns like that myself, find them boring and immature. Most people have a sex life, a lot of people 'shag around' - so what? As others have said, if you're going to put writing out in the public domain, people are going to have an opinion about it.

One poster has said she hopes she suffers the consequences of her beliefs. There are A LOT of consequences of pushing a belief that men can be women, from women having to undress in front of men, to having to play sport against them, to missing out on awards, places on panels etc. Of course you would imply the most nefarious intentions.

As for people questioning her intelligence - is this your first day on the Internet? If someone writes something others deem stupid, they will say so!

SO surprised to see a TRA being disingenuous! Shocked, I tells ya!

So NO, I do not think ZW has been bullied, and NO I do not think she deserves an apology from Mumsnet and NO a few posts on a forum is NOT worse than what Milli Hill has been through - have you actually read her blog??

I won't be replying to you again, and I hope nobody else does either. Just wanted to address your disingenuous takes for the benefit of everyone reading.

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stealtheatingtunnocks · 11/01/2024 00:30

midwifery and doulas know what sex is.

all of them.

NitroNine · 10/01/2024 22:14

I’ve never been able to understand how the TRA’s haven’t gone after the term midwife for being insufficiently inclusive. Midbirthingperson would obviously make much more sense & be KINDER. Not to those with English as an additional language, nor those with learning disabilities; but as we know from all the other health-related language-manglings like cervix-haver; that’s fine.

Wonderful news; & may the ripples of sanity spread to furthest reaches of this duck pond of absurdity where some feckwits have given the foxes assorted floaties, swimming lessons, & keep telling them they’re beautiful swans…

Milli Hill receives apology from Doula UK for bullying from its members
popebishop · 10/01/2024 21:49

I always thought a doula was a lovely idea. I'm quite sad to see they can be bigoted against protected beliefs - I wonder if they refuse to work for women who think things they disagree with? Reminds me of the thing I read the other day about a care home staff praying for the soul of a gay man who was dying, solely because he was gay.

popebishop · 10/01/2024 21:44

The speaker told them that she would not speak at their conference unless they took this quote off their website. And amazingly, IMUK said no. And the speaker had no choice but to forgo her invite to speak.

This is so bizarre. You won't take part in a professional event because one professional complimented the event? What is even the logic there? Do they go and check who everyone at the event has voted for as well or whether there are any "wrong" religious beliefs there?

ArabellaScott · 10/01/2024 21:43

popebishop · 10/01/2024 21:41

In fact, the opposite happened. I received the warmest, kindest, most genuine email straight back from the founder. I can still remember opening it on a train to London and reading it with tears in my eyes. I’m not going to share the contents, but suffice to say the breastfeeding counsellor who was trying to chip chip chip away at my livelihood got rapped over the knuckles, and I received an invite to have a ‘very strong margarita’ on the Gold Coast of Australia, should I ever be passing that way.

This is heartening!

It is. Lovely to hear.

popebishop · 10/01/2024 21:41

In fact, the opposite happened. I received the warmest, kindest, most genuine email straight back from the founder. I can still remember opening it on a train to London and reading it with tears in my eyes. I’m not going to share the contents, but suffice to say the breastfeeding counsellor who was trying to chip chip chip away at my livelihood got rapped over the knuckles, and I received an invite to have a ‘very strong margarita’ on the Gold Coast of Australia, should I ever be passing that way.

This is heartening!

popebishop · 10/01/2024 21:41

That's not Milli?! But yes two results in one day!

suggestionsplease1 · 10/01/2024 21:40

DerekFaker · 10/01/2024 21:35

Why should they speak for other members? We're not a hive mind. Go and take it up with the actual people who have posted about Zoe Williams in the Zoe.Williams thread.

So you agree then, Zoe Williams should receive an apology, and you'll be pleased with that, because no woman should be targeted for online bullying.

That's good that you have a consistent position, because there are other posters here that seem to be inconsistent, and seem to be pleased that Milli Hill has received an apology, but don't think that Zoe Williams should receive one.

DerekFaker · 10/01/2024 21:37

Sorry, wrong thread

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SirChenjins · 10/01/2024 21:36

Asked and answered.

DerekFaker · 10/01/2024 21:35

Why should they speak for other members? We're not a hive mind. Go and take it up with the actual people who have posted about Zoe Williams in the Zoe.Williams thread.

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ArabellaScott · 10/01/2024 21:34

We are sorry there is nobody available to take your derail right now. Please try again in working hours.

suggestionsplease1 · 10/01/2024 21:32

Yes, when you haven't got an answer it is best to ignore eh.

SirChenjins · 10/01/2024 21:30

Agree @Theinnocenteyeballsinthesky

Theinnocenteyeballsinthesky · 10/01/2024 21:29

The rock is grey & very handy for averting merailing

suggestionsplease1 · 10/01/2024 21:29

DerekFaker · 10/01/2024 21:28

I know nothing about the Zoe Williams thread, haven't even read it. But surely discussions about it should be in THAT thread, then you can debate with the actual people who are talking about her!

Please stop derailing this thread.

Edited

It is clearly not a derail.

It is a very relevant point that I am making to the subject matter of this thread.

DerekFaker · 10/01/2024 21:28

I know nothing about the Zoe Williams thread, haven't even read it. But surely discussions about it should be in THAT thread, then you can debate with the actual people who are talking about her!

Please stop derailing this thread.

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SirChenjins · 10/01/2024 21:27

Then report the individual posts on that thread and MN will respond to your query.

suggestionsplease1 · 10/01/2024 21:26

This thread is about celebrating an apology someone received for being the subject of online bullying.

I am asking if Zoe Williams can expect the same from Mumsnet, who are hosting a thread that makes her the subject of online bullying.

HermioneWeasley · 10/01/2024 21:24

Really pleased for Milli