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Original poster

Telegraph: Parents who refuse children gender change face seven years in jail in Scotland

141 replies

ResisterRex · 09/01/2024 19:43

What to say? They'll stop at nothing. Women and children, and parents are just cannon fodder. Who cares if they get hurt.

For shame.

"Parents who refuse to allow their children to change gender would face up to seven years in jail under SNP plans to ban “conversion therapy”.
Proposals published on Tuesday state that actions designed to “change or suppress” another individual’s gender identity, causing them physical or psychological harm, would become illegal under the radical law.
SNP ministers acknowledged that so-called conversion practices often took place in a “family setting”, raising the prospect that parents could be criminalisedd_ if they refuse to go along with their child’s declaration that they are transgender.
Stopping someone from “dressing in a way that reflects their sexual orientation or gender identity” was put forward as an example of an action that would become illegal, even if a parent believed they were acting in a child’s best interests.
A consultation states that alongside new criminal sanctions, preemptive civil orders could be obtained against parents or religious leaders, even where conversion practices had not yet taken place.
The plans are the latest controversial measure put forward by the SNPP_. Critics argue the proposals would have a devastating impact on freedom of speech, privacy and family life in Scotland.
Religious campaigners have vowed to fight the ban in the courts.
“We have grave concerns that these plans will criminalise loving parents, who could face years in jail simply for refusing to sign up to the gender ideology cult,” Marion Calder, a director at the campaign group For Women Scotlandd_, said.
“They will also hand activists and social workers unprecedented powers to meddle in family life, while having a chilling impact on therapists and counsellors.
“If the SNP and Greens insist on pushing this through, it is likely to go the same way as the toxic self-ID and named person laws and be blocked in the courts.”"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/09/parents-refuse-child-gender-change-jail-snp-conversion-ban/

OP posts:
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WandaTheScarletWitch · 09/01/2024 21:40

Froodwithatowel · 09/01/2024 21:10

So children taken into foster care and parents imprisoned.

Gosh that's going to have amazing outcomes on the children involved isn't it? I mean that stacks the dice miles high for happiness and stability. I'll await the inevitable court cases (in the mad event this isn't stamped on when it hits reality in a court room) of those children taking the Scots govt to court for harms done, interference in family life, failure to protect from activists and captured nutjobs in positions of power, the damage of the care system and the guilt of what they've done to their parents/the wreckage of their extended family relationships. Detransitioners or not, that really ought to be worth millions in compensation, which will be needed to buy in the services to recover.

It makes me shudder to think of children ending up in the care system, let alone any of the rest of it. How do they think that will help?

I was honestly surprised when this was talked about in parliament last time that 'gay conversion practice' wasn't already outlawed in the UK (thinking e.g. sending to American type ultra religious summer camp to 'cure' gay son, obviously bad) but it seems it's because they are linking together all or nothing. What do social services currently 'do' with e.g. homophobic parents who don't accept their teenagers sexuality?

Wednesdaywednesday · 09/01/2024 21:28

This is appalling. I’d consider counter action - like reporting the deputy head to child protection. The Cass report is very clear on the impact of social transition - there are clear child protection issues around a school forcing this against the families beliefs of what’s best for the child. If this got into the press, it would be very damaging for Watsons.

WandaTheScarletWitch · 09/01/2024 21:23

@Apollo441 OMG yes you are right, why would they care about their enjoyment, absolutely horrendous :-(

RainWithSunnySpells · 09/01/2024 21:23

I couldn't help but think of that scene in 'The Killing Fields' where a young child (who is in an outdoor school lesson) is by a blackboard with stickmen drawn on it in chalk that shows a family holding hands. They cross out the parents and then rub out the 'hands' between the parents and the children.

Froodwithatowel · 09/01/2024 21:10

So children taken into foster care and parents imprisoned.

Gosh that's going to have amazing outcomes on the children involved isn't it? I mean that stacks the dice miles high for happiness and stability. I'll await the inevitable court cases (in the mad event this isn't stamped on when it hits reality in a court room) of those children taking the Scots govt to court for harms done, interference in family life, failure to protect from activists and captured nutjobs in positions of power, the damage of the care system and the guilt of what they've done to their parents/the wreckage of their extended family relationships. Detransitioners or not, that really ought to be worth millions in compensation, which will be needed to buy in the services to recover.

Apollo441 · 09/01/2024 21:09

WandaTheScarletWitch · 09/01/2024 20:40

Oh I see, I understand what you mean now about men who would be interested in keeping children permanently young, (yuk), but why the no sexual function? ( I mean I understand why it happens eg if they go on blockers, but Imean why would men want them to have no sexual function)

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Because it is for their own gratification and I suspect couldn't give a fuck if they had no sexual function. As long as they look the part...

littlbrowndog · 09/01/2024 21:01

Watsons school completely captured by this. How you were treated by them. Unbelievable

WandaTheScarletWitch · 09/01/2024 21:00

ditalini · 09/01/2024 20:39

Who the fuck will decide what clothes "reflect their sexual orientation or gender expression "?

If I object to my child (of either sex) rocking up at school in full drag or dressed as a puppy because that reflects their "gender expression" or "sexuality" rather than bog standard teen rebellion, do I get reported?

I guess school rules on hair colour having to be "natural" are out the window as that seems to be a key part of "expressing" one's non-binary blue-gender.

School is an interesting one because in my experience (South of England so not Scotland) school uniform is extremely strict so would definitely not currently be allowed of course, but I have read of uniform policies needing/being changed due to being discriminatory (examples were race but I guess any pc could apply) and of course gender is not a pc

littlbrowndog · 09/01/2024 21:00

rogdmum · 09/01/2024 20:05

It’s awful Parents are being told they don’t have to “actively” support their child’s gender identity but must not do anything to “suppress” it. They have even specified clothing, so, for example parents would not be able to tell their adolescent daughter that she may not wear a binder.

it also gives ScotGov the legal basis for self ID in schools. To date, ScotGov have danced around. The fact that there is no legislation to compel schools to support social transition. This changes all of that and makes child led affirmation mandatory.

Equally worrying is the fact that they are not just legislating around “conversion”. They are also legislating around “suppressing” which has a very broad meaning and places a chilling effect on parents, teachers and social workers.

Yes this is exactly what can happen. No one not parents or school will be able to say a word

7 years in jail. Ffs. My government.

why are they not focusing on drug deaths. Poverty

WandaTheScarletWitch · 09/01/2024 20:51

rogdmum · 09/01/2024 20:11

Should add, I have direct experience of the use of the term “suppression.” The Deputy Head of George Watson’s College said our referral to social services (stating that our daughter was at the threshold for child protection) was because of concerns around the impact of our “suppressing” our daughter’s wish to transition. We didn’t use male pronouns for her, allow a binder or agree that she is actually a boy. That appears to be “suppression.”

The current environment is bad enough for parents who wish to take a cautious approach. This Bill will destroy families.

Really sorry to hear that, what did social services do?

PurpleSparkledPixie · 09/01/2024 20:43

preemptive civil orders could be obtained against parents or religious leaders, even where conversion practices had not yet taken place.

Wut??

WandaTheScarletWitch · 09/01/2024 20:40

Boomboom22 · 09/01/2024 20:19

I mean there must be snp ministers who have a vested interest in making young people permanently young with no sexual function or just psychopathic because there is no other reason to support this. Many many tras are open about this.

Oh I see, I understand what you mean now about men who would be interested in keeping children permanently young, (yuk), but why the no sexual function? ( I mean I understand why it happens eg if they go on blockers, but Imean why would men want them to have no sexual function)

ditalini · 09/01/2024 20:40

The death of the ages old cry of the parent "you're not going out like that".

Original poster
ResisterRex · 09/01/2024 20:39

rogdmum · 09/01/2024 20:13

I would strongly suggest not responding to the consultation until the final Cass report is published.

I thought the same as regards the schools guidance for England and Wales.

And I wonder how Scot Gov plans to "prove" Scottish children are so different without sounding like xenophobes/utter loons

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 09/01/2024 20:39

rogdmum · 09/01/2024 20:28

I’m hoping so. Just before Christmas it was being reported that it was expected shortly into the New Year (or similar words). Even with a bit of a delay, that should leave plenty time before April.

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I do hope it will come out soon rogdmum.

ditalini · 09/01/2024 20:39

Who the fuck will decide what clothes "reflect their sexual orientation or gender expression "?

If I object to my child (of either sex) rocking up at school in full drag or dressed as a puppy because that reflects their "gender expression" or "sexuality" rather than bog standard teen rebellion, do I get reported?

I guess school rules on hair colour having to be "natural" are out the window as that seems to be a key part of "expressing" one's non-binary blue-gender.

ArcaneWireless · 09/01/2024 20:29

This Bill will destroy families.

Aye.

That and even more children.

Winnading · 09/01/2024 20:28

Gassylady · 09/01/2024 20:24

I’m just filling this in now it doesn’t ask if you are a Scottish resident.

Edited

https://temp-mail.org/

Google throwaway email if you dont like this one

rogdmum · 09/01/2024 20:28

OldCrone · 09/01/2024 20:21

Will it be published before the closing date of the consultation (2 April)?

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I’m hoping so. Just before Christmas it was being reported that it was expected shortly into the New Year (or similar words). Even with a bit of a delay, that should leave plenty time before April.

Winnading · 09/01/2024 20:26

Well that escalated.

Any chance of a group, dunno who, wings over Scotland maybe, getting a full page ad in a big Scottish newspaper about this?

Il happily fling money at whoever wants to. It really needs to be known about over the whole of Scotland.
Anyone told Alba? They might be able to get this out there.

Gassylady · 09/01/2024 20:24

I’m just filling this in now it doesn’t ask if you are a Scottish resident.

EasternStandard · 09/01/2024 20:22

rogdmum · 09/01/2024 20:11

Should add, I have direct experience of the use of the term “suppression.” The Deputy Head of George Watson’s College said our referral to social services (stating that our daughter was at the threshold for child protection) was because of concerns around the impact of our “suppressing” our daughter’s wish to transition. We didn’t use male pronouns for her, allow a binder or agree that she is actually a boy. That appears to be “suppression.”

The current environment is bad enough for parents who wish to take a cautious approach. This Bill will destroy families.

I’m so sorry to hear this, it’s all distressing

OldCrone · 09/01/2024 20:21

rogdmum · 09/01/2024 20:13

I would strongly suggest not responding to the consultation until the final Cass report is published.

Will it be published before the closing date of the consultation (2 April)?

Boomboom22 · 09/01/2024 20:19

I mean there must be snp ministers who have a vested interest in making young people permanently young with no sexual function or just psychopathic because there is no other reason to support this. Many many tras are open about this.

WandaTheScarletWitch · 09/01/2024 20:15

Boomboom22 · 09/01/2024 19:45

So they want to damage teenagers so badly they will put their parents in prison in order to have childlike future victims!? Why else?
Scotland needs to get rid of the snp and greens, how can they be so incompetent?

Just wondering, who are 'they' do you mean the TRAs or the government? and what do you mean by future victims?

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