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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph: Parents who refuse children gender change face seven years in jail in Scotland

141 replies

ResisterRex · 09/01/2024 19:43

What to say? They'll stop at nothing. Women and children, and parents are just cannon fodder. Who cares if they get hurt.

For shame.

"Parents who refuse to allow their children to change gender would face up to seven years in jail under SNP plans to ban “conversion therapy”.
Proposals published on Tuesday state that actions designed to “change or suppress” another individual’s gender identity, causing them physical or psychological harm, would become illegal under the radical law.
SNP ministers acknowledged that so-called conversion practices often took place in a “family setting”, raising the prospect that parents could be criminalisedd_ if they refuse to go along with their child’s declaration that they are transgender.
Stopping someone from “dressing in a way that reflects their sexual orientation or gender identity” was put forward as an example of an action that would become illegal, even if a parent believed they were acting in a child’s best interests.
A consultation states that alongside new criminal sanctions, preemptive civil orders could be obtained against parents or religious leaders, even where conversion practices had not yet taken place.
The plans are the latest controversial measure put forward by the SNPP_. Critics argue the proposals would have a devastating impact on freedom of speech, privacy and family life in Scotland.
Religious campaigners have vowed to fight the ban in the courts.
“We have grave concerns that these plans will criminalise loving parents, who could face years in jail simply for refusing to sign up to the gender ideology cult,” Marion Calder, a director at the campaign group For Women Scotlandd_, said.
“They will also hand activists and social workers unprecedented powers to meddle in family life, while having a chilling impact on therapists and counsellors.
“If the SNP and Greens insist on pushing this through, it is likely to go the same way as the toxic self-ID and named person laws and be blocked in the courts.”"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/09/parents-refuse-child-gender-change-jail-snp-conversion-ban/

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lonelywater · 03/04/2024 02:41

SammyScrounge · 03/04/2024 02:31

Envious that they didn't think of it first.

you would think that they might learn something, based on the fact that all their gender woo laws thus far are as popular as leprosy.

SammyScrounge · 03/04/2024 02:31

ResisterRex · 09/01/2024 19:46

And what will Labour have to say about it?

Envious that they didn't think of it first.

ArabellaScott · 27/01/2024 10:05

EvelynBeatrice · 26/01/2024 16:23

People who don’t worry about this have never read any Scottish legislation - they constantly draft as widely as possible, which isn’t ideal when you’re creating criminal offences. There is no effective second chamber. Occasionally, they try to ( or have to) claw back some of the absurdly wide unclear provisions in guidance, but usually the aim whether deliberate or inadvertent is to maximise prosecutorial discretion - so Josephine Public is entirely dependent upon the crown office/ fiscals / police applying the law in a non partisan, non political, sensible way….. and given what we’ve seen to date….how the Hate Crime law is applied will be a good indication of what might happen

Given the way the legal system in Scotland is politically involved, it's a recipe for a very dangerous undemocratic situation.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/lord-advocate-role-and-functions/

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/comment/five-flaws-scotlands-government

Lord Advocate: role and functions

The role and functions of Scotland's Lord Advocate.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/lord-advocate-role-and-functions

DuesToTheDirt · 26/01/2024 18:29

There is no effective second chamber.

Absolutely. I hadn't thought about this until the GRR fiasco, when Westminster had to rescue us from the madness.

caringcarer · 26/01/2024 17:06

Absolute madness. Typical SNP policy.

EvelynBeatrice · 26/01/2024 16:23

People who don’t worry about this have never read any Scottish legislation - they constantly draft as widely as possible, which isn’t ideal when you’re creating criminal offences. There is no effective second chamber. Occasionally, they try to ( or have to) claw back some of the absurdly wide unclear provisions in guidance, but usually the aim whether deliberate or inadvertent is to maximise prosecutorial discretion - so Josephine Public is entirely dependent upon the crown office/ fiscals / police applying the law in a non partisan, non political, sensible way….. and given what we’ve seen to date….how the Hate Crime law is applied will be a good indication of what might happen

Britinme · 26/01/2024 00:02

I am engaged in a discussion on another forum (yes Virginia there are other fora) with a highly educated Scottish guy who absolutely can't get his head around my objections and insists on equating it with false fears about a smacking ban.

ArabellaScott · 18/01/2024 10:12

Me neither. GRR will be fine with all the exemptions and caveats. Except then they swept them away and voted them down.

'Several SNP politicians are unhappy that the proposals have been published in a general election year, fearing they could prove as unpopular and divisive as <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/NsJ7a/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/12/08/government-block-nicola-sturgeon-gender-reforms-lawful/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nicola Sturgeon’s gender self-ID law.'

No shit.

rogdmum · 18/01/2024 08:06

It’s just the same minimising they did under the GRR Bill. Women’s rights? Of course the GRR Bill doesn’t impact women’s rights. Parental rights? Of course the conversion therapy bill doesn’t impact parental rights.

IcakethereforeIam · 17/01/2024 22:36

The Telegraph, apparently the SNP are bottling it

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/17/snp-ministers-water-down-conversion-therapy-ban-revolt/

https://archive.ph/NsJ7a

Don't believe 'em.

Its A Trap GIF by Star Wars
Leyenda · 16/01/2024 10:33

If conversion therapy is banned, much will depend on the approach the police take and if they prosecute all cases of conversion therapy, or just the ones they personally don’t like.

I would like to see every trans activist who says to a child “You’re probably trans / you’d be happier trans / it’s cooler to be trans / you’re transphobic if you won’t sleep with me” to be prosecuted for conversion therapy.

But I suspect the police approach will be, as in most things, to arrest women at the drop of a hat but let men get away with most crimes.

I’m interested in this conversation because at my school there was huge pressure to be gay and it was very common to be sexually harassed by people saying “How do you know you won’t like it if you haven’t tried it, let me…”. But if you said you weren’t interested you were called homophobic. 🧐

ArabellaScott · 15/01/2024 22:22

Labour will probably frown and tut about the flaws in the policy, and then meekly vote it through as they did the GRR.

UtopiaPlanitia · 15/01/2024 21:51

ResisterRex · 09/01/2024 19:46

And what will Labour have to say about it?

Good point, given how widely disliked the SNP/ Greens GRA Bill was, will Labour grow a backbone and seek changes to reduce the excessive elements in this Bill? Or will they do more of the same mumbling things through readings and committees because the activists have them scared?

The SNP/Greens coalition is one bonkers piece of legislation after another.

ArabellaScott · 15/01/2024 21:37

'...equalities minister Emma Roddick posted on social media that her ID shows she is a woman and said “people generally accept I am a woman. I am generally feminine – I often wear make-up and dresses. I talk about being a woman and experience sexism and misogyny. But expression of gender identity means different things to different people.”'

From.a.Holyrood article, I'll link.

Getting to Know You: Emma Roddick

The SNP MSP for the Highlands and Islands talks to Margaret Taylor about finding value in small things, the importance o...

https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,getting-to-know-you-emma-roddick

IcakethereforeIam · 15/01/2024 21:09

Just put 'gasp' in the .gif drawer. I'm all of them.

NecessaryScene · 15/01/2024 20:20

I didn't know Roddick suffered from BPD!

It's how she got the seat. The SNP's newly-introduced closed list rules leap anyone to the front if they declare themselves as "disabled", which she did.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/dawn-of-the-imbeciles

They actually went as far as concealing vote totals for the list selection process so people couldn't tell whether someone was selected by votes or only by such a "positive discrimination" measure.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-uncertain-future/

rogdmum · 15/01/2024 20:03

Sorry, 2017 survey.

rogdmum · 15/01/2024 20:02

And in 2021, ScotGov knew the 2018 survey was “self selecting and online only and so may not provide a full and up to date picture.” But they went ahead and used it anyway as justification for their shiny new bill.

Telegraph: Parents who refuse children gender change face seven years in jail in Scotland
IcakethereforeIam · 15/01/2024 19:56

I didn't know Roddick suffered from BPD!

ArabellaScott · 15/01/2024 19:43

More from Wings.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/first-do-no-harm/

'...the basis for the Scottish Government’s proposals is now an undefined term based on an unknown risk to unknown numbers of gay and trans people extrapolated from outdated data from other countries which itself was produced via scientifically-invalid data drawn from undefined questions'

This administration is just beyond belief.

First Do No Harm

We make no apology for returning once more to the subject of the Scottish Government’s proposed new law to ban “conversion practices”, because it provides such an illuminating mic…

https://wingsoverscotland.com/first-do-no-harm

HoneyButterPopcorn · 14/01/2024 09:33

Just thinking about some of the things I really really wanted as a child that my evil parents refused.

dye my hair
pierce my nose
get a (very large) dog

when did parenting become a crime?

rogdmum · 14/01/2024 09:26

I was very disappointed by Alex Massie’s column. He overlooks the risks to parents and makes a fundamental error by stating:

“To prove an offence has been committed, prosecutors will have to demonstrate that the accused intended to cause “harm”

This is untrue and the proposed bill emphasises that intent will NOT need to be proven and outlines in quite a bit of detail why that is. The lack of need for “intent” completely changes the tone of the bill and I don’t know how Alex did not pick up on it and reported the opposite.

Telegraph: Parents who refuse children gender change face seven years in jail in Scotland
Telegraph: Parents who refuse children gender change face seven years in jail in Scotland
Telegraph: Parents who refuse children gender change face seven years in jail in Scotland