Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jon Ronson thinks we're stuck in the Poltergeist scene with QAnon...

59 replies

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 07/01/2024 13:00

The man who somehow forgot to mention that the harmless, fluffy Mich Fest protests ended in a TRA murdering a lesbian couple and their son, is now saying GC women need to "lift themselves out of" "culture wars". I'm sure the women locked up with males murderers would love to be able to do that!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2f3bc31d-dad7-4cf1-9522-860ce8cc0e3b?shareToken=050a2b481a5be06c283f7e180dbd3f23

Jon Ronson: ‘People are losing their minds on social media’

The dark days of Covid have a lot to answer for, says the podcaster, as he unveils his second series of Things Fell Apart

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2f3bc31d-dad7-4cf1-9522-860ce8cc0e3b?shareToken=050a2b481a5be06c283f7e180dbd3f23

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
nauticant · 09/01/2024 18:46

Note the subtlety in his explanation:

Jon Ronson this morning on Radio 4: "Pretty much every culture war that tears us apart today, not every one but most of them, all blew up within about 20 days of each other, in May 2020, 6 weeks into lockdown".

It's "all blew up" rather than "started". What he's claiming is that they either started or suddenly exploded into public consciousness in a particularly narrow time window. He also included the wriggle room of "most of them" so if anyone said "hang on, my campaigning area doesn't fit into this definition" he'd say "but I didn't say "all of them".

He's a dishonest weasel.

popebishop · 09/01/2024 18:38

AtomicBlondeRose · 09/01/2024 18:27

How on earth can anyone claiming to be a critical thinker say that culture wars all began in 2020? When Trump and Brexit were in 2016 and they were by no means the beginning of anything!

I did used to like his stuff but the faux-naïf thing is hard to pull off when you’re also posturing as a hard-hitting thinker unafraid to say what other dare not utter…

Jon Ronson has literally made a whole series of podcasts about where each "culture war" began. It's actually quite interesting, especially when you discover what he's left out. Spoiler- lots of them were before 2020. Or at least that's what his last podcast said....

AtomicBlondeRose · 09/01/2024 18:27

How on earth can anyone claiming to be a critical thinker say that culture wars all began in 2020? When Trump and Brexit were in 2016 and they were by no means the beginning of anything!

I did used to like his stuff but the faux-naïf thing is hard to pull off when you’re also posturing as a hard-hitting thinker unafraid to say what other dare not utter…

WarriorN · 09/01/2024 18:21

Oh god no.

Misogyny is still in its prime at the bbc.

RethinkingLife · 09/01/2024 18:11

He gets platformed by the bbc while fearless woman like Genevieve Gluck and Dr Em and many other feminists really digging deep get no heed.

Are we still waiting for Helen Joyce to be invited onto the BBC? Has Maya Forstater ever had a decent platform there? Will Rachel Meade? Allison Bailey? Jo Phoenix? Sonia Appleby? So many courageous women who have put so much on the line while Ronson and ilk affect to float above it all in a rarefied aether.

WarriorN · 09/01/2024 09:35

WarriorN · 09/01/2024 09:31

So he's quite capable of defining and researching conspiracy quackery.

There's a clip of a police man saying "I think it's excited delirium" or similar. Rather than a man struggling to breathe.

WarriorN · 09/01/2024 09:33

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2024 09:24

I do think trans activism, promotion to children, porn addiction etc has got madder since the lockdown. But obviously he's not going to look at that, is he? I hope someone else does.

Oh no we don't go there.

He gets platformed by the bbc while fearless woman like Genevieve Gluck and Dr Em and many other feminists really digging deep get no heed.

nauticant · 09/01/2024 09:31

Today's episode was on Ronson taking us to the death of George Floyd. Real events, but tenuous links.

WarriorN · 09/01/2024 09:31

So he's quite capable of defining and researching conspiracy quackery.

WarriorN · 09/01/2024 09:30

I'm listening to his first episode about the murders of women in America by a serial killer where they'd not managed to establish the cause of death.

Some dr came up with 'excited delirium' based on how they were left and so the killer was missed for some time till one woman survived and described him. He was choking them with his penis. The dr had missed key indicators.

However, this quack 'diagnosis' carried on being used to describe / dismiss an actual range of symptoms and diseases and seems to have become a recognised 'diagnostic label,' particularly among police dealing with drug addicts and those who've been tasered.

And unbelievably this idiot diagnosis of "excited delirium" was used to describe the symptoms of George Floyd by the police, rather than actually struggling to breathe due to brute force.

The whole thing is a horrific example of pseudoscientific ideas.

And he simply doesn't see the analogy with trans quackery.

teawamutu · 09/01/2024 09:30

It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it?

I make pertinent points about human behaviour and social trends.

You (woman I'm not interested in listening to) are being caught up in the culture wars.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2024 09:26

I think he's being conveniently dishonest. He defines "culture wars" in this narrow US-centric way to make his argument that "cultures wars are bad", but then uses "culture wars" vaguely and as something much more broad to mean a basket into which all those he considers deplorables can be chucked in to. Such as those opposed to gender identity ideology.

This.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2024 09:24

I do think trans activism, promotion to children, porn addiction etc has got madder since the lockdown. But obviously he's not going to look at that, is he? I hope someone else does.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2024 09:22

They act like these pathetic ‘culture wars’ are beneath them - while actually perpetuating the whole ‘culture wars’ trope using their massive media platform.

Exactly. Ronson's getting a lot out of the "culture wars".

Deathbyathousandcats · 09/01/2024 09:07

I think he’s another one of those terrified of having his child think badly of him; he’s always seemed like that, ever since his son was small.
see also; Caitlin Moran

nauticant · 09/01/2024 09:04

In other words, Ronson is just another conspiracy theorist type, just one who considers himself to be so much superior to others.

Anyway, it's started now on Radio 4. Miami in the 1980s...

StragglyTinsel · 09/01/2024 09:02

Ronson pretends to be a disinterested observer floating above this sad and inexplicable mess.

so many if these type do.

They act like these pathetic ‘culture wars’ are beneath them - while actually perpetuating the whole ‘culture wars’ trope using their massive media platform.

eurgh.

Abhannmor · 09/01/2024 08:59

I think the only issue given a shot in the arm , ouch sorry, by lockdown was the anti vaccination lobby.

But Ronson is trying to recast concerns about the effect of ' trans rights' on women's privacy and safety or children's well being as a recent by product of the pandemic.

This is what he does , makes bold , snappy sounding assertions , extrapolated from news items etc. But unlike, eg , Dr John Campbell, Ronson pretends to be a disinterested observer floating above this sad and inexplicable mess.

StragglyTinsel · 09/01/2024 08:58

It’s the whole ‘culture wars are bad’ argument being made by people intent on having a ‘culture war’.

It is ironic that the people supposedly fighting on the side of ‘diversity’ are just as against people thinking differently (to them) as they claim their opponents are.

Teddleshon · 09/01/2024 08:49

Agree with all this but what I really want to know is how on earth did someone with a voice like that get a career in radio?!

nauticant · 09/01/2024 08:45

It's the lazy guilt by association fallacy. Because after April 2020 some right wing people in the US became engaged in the debate over gender identity ideology, then everyone engaged, including those on the left long before that date, and those since, US-based or not, can all be discredited as "culture warriors". Because Ronson disapproves of their opposition to gender identity ideology.

nauticant · 09/01/2024 08:38

I think he's being conveniently dishonest. He defines "culture wars" in this narrow US-centric way to make his argument that "cultures wars are bad", but then uses "culture wars" vaguely and as something much more broad to mean a basket into which all those he considers deplorables can be chucked in to. Such as those opposed to gender identity ideology.

StragglyTinsel · 09/01/2024 08:35

Every time I hear someone wheel out th concept of ‘culture war’ I put their point into the bucket marked ‘argument by buzzword’.

It’s just nonsense. People are allowed to have political disagreements and debates about cultural issues.

There is no war here at all.

Painting people who object to trans ideology or any other identity based politics as the aggressors in a war against poor victims and their faithful allies is simply a way of avoiding having to make a coherent argument. People doing this can sit congratulating themselves in a vague sense of moral superiority without having to examine anything.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2024 08:29

Considering that people opposing gender identity ideology is something that Ronson considers to be one of the "culture wars" that'll be news to many of us. And also news to others engaged in many of the other "culture wars".

How ignorant. He's looking at it all from a very American perspective, but in his times interview the other day he dismissed this as an issue when it was raised, by saying it's all the same. Because either he's not particularly well informed about the situation in the U.K., or he thinks America is the only place that really matters, now he lives there. No wonder Graham Linehan is frustrated.

nauticant · 09/01/2024 08:18

Jon Ronson this morning on Radio 4: "Pretty much every culture war that tears us apart today, not every one but most of them, all blew up within about 20 days of each other, in May 2020, 6 weeks into lockdown".

Considering that people opposing gender identity ideology is something that Ronson considers to be one of the "culture wars" that'll be news to many of us. And also news to others engaged in many of the other "culture wars".

His definition would seem to be that people were confused and lost once the reality of lockdown hit fully, and them becoming involved in pre-existing movements, some of which were rational and valid, was those movements becoming "culture wars".