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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Will Gender Ideology influence how you vote?

215 replies

Heylo · 25/12/2023 10:19

Hi, new to Mumsnet. Full disclaimer I have no kids yet but will start trying March 24 (lesbian with some embryos in the freezer!). I decided to join after the hilarious responses to the Dawn Butler debacle over the weekend.

I’ve historically been a Labour voter but I’m voting Tory next year because I’m concerned about women’s and children’s rights in relation to Gender Ideology. The lesbian scene especially has been culturally bulldozed by the new additions to womanhood & a lot of us (in our 30s) now self - exclude based on some of the militant trans rights activists (TRAs) pressuring women into taking on trans women as partners and socialise more closely with them. (Only media reporting on this is Telegraph & The Daily Mail. There has been a media blackout on this at the BBC and The Guardian). Actually a couple of women have tried to run same - sex speed dating nights but TRAs have sent them threats, doxxed them to their employers and called the venues to get the nights / events shut down. You can read more about that here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12401009/amp/Lesbian-speed-dating-event-sparks-transphobia-row-organisers-insist-adult-human-females-attend-popular-weekly-event.html

Anyway sorry for the segue, my question is to anyone who is interested in answering- if you are historically a Labour voter would the Gender issue sway you to voting conservative?

its a big topic at the moment in Gender Critical lesbian and bi circles. Everyone is usually a Labour voter but we’re all worried about what craziness Keir Starmer is going to introduce re erasing women’s spaces. I was curious what Mumsnet users think as outside of lesbians you are the next group (parents) who are most affected by this.

Lesbian speed-dating event demands only 'adult human females' attend

Jenny Watson, 31, is in the midst of a transphobia row after insisting only 'adult human females' can attend a lesbian speed-dating event at the College Arms pub in Bloomsbury.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12401009/amp/Lesbian-speed-dating-event-sparks-transphobia-row-organisers-insist-adult-human-females-attend-popular-weekly-event.html

OP posts:
SirChenjins · 25/12/2023 20:57

ilovesooty · 25/12/2023 18:44

And a Conservative Home Secretary who's joked about keeping women sedated so they can be raped. No word from the Prime Minister on that.

Your right, there hasn’t been .

He has been clear about what a woman is though - unlike Starmer. If Starmer gets his act together then I will vote for Labour as normal, but he’s got a lot of work to do to sort out the mess in his party.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 25/12/2023 19:52

Cleverly apparently said the ideal spouse was "someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there".

I see that as an obviously a self-deprecating joke. I dont believe Yvette Cooper can be that lacking in humour she doesn't see that too. She does have a interest to be 'look over there' about misogyny, given how silent shes been about men invading womens spaces. Or perhaps she genuinely does think this is worse than men in changing rooms with girls.

DewHopper · 25/12/2023 19:19

ilovesooty · 25/12/2023 18:44

And a Conservative Home Secretary who's joked about keeping women sedated so they can be raped. No word from the Prime Minister on that.

That is not what he said though is it? I am as pissed off with his stupid 'humour' as any other person but let's not mis-represent what he was saying.

DOBARDAN · 25/12/2023 19:03

Hello @Heylo me too, so enjoyed the hilarity on here after Dawn Butler's peculiar announcement, and likewise, yes, GI will influence how I vote, it is my number one concern. I'm politically homeless although I'll be (tactically) voting Tory as they are the somewhat lesser of evils and I truly dread a Labour government who don't even know what a woman is, let alone their safeguarding, and other, needs.

ilovesooty · 25/12/2023 18:44

SirChenjins · 25/12/2023 17:51

Don’t forget that it’s a Labour politician who’s reported MN to the Met in the last couple of days for daring to allow GC views to be posted ffs. Nothing from Starmer on that.

And a Conservative Home Secretary who's joked about keeping women sedated so they can be raped. No word from the Prime Minister on that.

Cosmosforbreakfast · 25/12/2023 18:29

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 25/12/2023 15:29

@Heylo
I'm in Scotland.
Obviously I won't touch the SNP, Libs, Labour, Greens, that leaves me the Torys, and ouch.
As a single mother, and a disabled one at that, they've never done anything for me.

I never thought I'd be a single issue voter, but I'm considering it.
It's either that or spoil.

I'm also in Scotland. No way in hell would I vote SNP, Libs, Labour, Greens either. That's what it's come to, Tories are best of a rotten lot for one single reason.

Please don't spoil though, women fought as hard for the right to vote as we are fighting now to keep our rights, identities and to protect our children.

AraJingleBellScott · 25/12/2023 18:25

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 25/12/2023 18:09

There is no way I could vote for the party that put Isla Bryson in a woman's jail.

Theyve been putting men into womens jails for years. Its every political party. No leader stood up and said this was a disgrace and should never happen until they realised the public reaction. Very few politicians understand the issue.

I think whatever we say here, labour will get in, and god help womens rights then.

Starmer is arguably one of the least radical politicians within labour, and his natural reaction was to say women shouldnt talk about it. And thats whats going to happen. Labour will stop women talking about real feminism and safeguarding.

The SNP/Green coalition have been far more vociferous and misogynist on this issue than any other government.

DewHopper · 25/12/2023 18:14

Froodwithatowel · 25/12/2023 17:46

I will be a single issue voter.

If women are disappeared in law, and the equality of access and inclusion of women is subordinated to enforced performing of the chosen fiction of a small number of men, what else is there really to be politically interested in?

We can't worry about poverty impacting on women when that group is just a mixed sex lump of nothing relevant and the main focus of women is not upsetting a political lobby.

There's no point in pretending to care about 'inclusion' when women with disabilities, from different cultures and faiths and belief systems are excluded from resources and facilities including health care and public life, and we're not allowed to talk about it for fear of upsetting a political lobby.

Safeguarding children will be completely compromised with the priority not being the best interests of the child, but the demands of the political capture.

And there is no way that I plan to vote for any government that is not able to handle reality, My standards have got very, very low and that's the bottom one.

Yes I feel this too. This is just too important for women to roll over on.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 25/12/2023 18:09

There is no way I could vote for the party that put Isla Bryson in a woman's jail.

Theyve been putting men into womens jails for years. Its every political party. No leader stood up and said this was a disgrace and should never happen until they realised the public reaction. Very few politicians understand the issue.

I think whatever we say here, labour will get in, and god help womens rights then.

Starmer is arguably one of the least radical politicians within labour, and his natural reaction was to say women shouldnt talk about it. And thats whats going to happen. Labour will stop women talking about real feminism and safeguarding.

morningtoncrescent62 · 25/12/2023 18:01

I'm lucky. I live in a constituency (currently SNP but historically Labour) where Labour members have chosen a fabulous, feisty feminist candidate for the next Westminster election. So it's a no-brainer for me. I wouldn't ever have voted Tory: yes, they've come to realise what a woman is, but they won't do anything to improve the lives of the women in this country who really need it. And let's not forget that the capture of institutions has happened on their watch and is only just beginning to be turned around.

Labour are in with a chance in my constituency and I want the SNP out. From what I can see, Labour is beginning to turn the tanker around but by no means out of the woods. When the time comes I'll be at hustings, asking questions and keeping women's rights on the agenda, and supporting a candidate who, from everything I see, if elected will be joining Rosie Duffield and Tonia Antoniazzi in defending women's rights on the Labour benches.

SirChenjins · 25/12/2023 17:51

Don’t forget that it’s a Labour politician who’s reported MN to the Met in the last couple of days for daring to allow GC views to be posted ffs. Nothing from Starmer on that.

InvisibleBuffy · 25/12/2023 17:50

I'm not sure yet. I'm traditionally a leftie voter. I've voted for Labour, Greens and LDs in the past.
I can't vote Tory. They have screwed the economy and NHS too badly.
But I also can't vote for a party that would effectively nullify women's rights.
There's holding your nose and voting for the best of a bad bunch, but this is different. My conscience won't let me cross the line of voting against womens rights. I just can't.
I'm going to wait until I find out who my MP candidates are before I decide.
If I lived in Rosie Duffield's constituency, I'd have no qualms about voting Labour for example.
I'm currently in a mostly working class Tory constituency. I'm hoping I'll get a Labour candidate who understands that self ID is not going to go down well here and will be openly GC.
It'll all depend on the individual for me. Otherwise, I may have to spoil my vote for the first time in my life.
I can't vote for the Tories in good conscience and that same conscience means I also can't vote for removal of women's safe spaces, refuges, rape crisis centres, right to fair sport or for the medicalisation of gender non-conforming children.
I'm hanging all my hopes on getting a Labour candidate with a backbone.

Froodwithatowel · 25/12/2023 17:46

I will be a single issue voter.

If women are disappeared in law, and the equality of access and inclusion of women is subordinated to enforced performing of the chosen fiction of a small number of men, what else is there really to be politically interested in?

We can't worry about poverty impacting on women when that group is just a mixed sex lump of nothing relevant and the main focus of women is not upsetting a political lobby.

There's no point in pretending to care about 'inclusion' when women with disabilities, from different cultures and faiths and belief systems are excluded from resources and facilities including health care and public life, and we're not allowed to talk about it for fear of upsetting a political lobby.

Safeguarding children will be completely compromised with the priority not being the best interests of the child, but the demands of the political capture.

And there is no way that I plan to vote for any government that is not able to handle reality, My standards have got very, very low and that's the bottom one.

Villagetoraiseachild · 25/12/2023 17:03

It is so heartening that terfs are still a terfing on Christmas day!
Happy Terfmas and a very wonderful terfytastic New Year to you all!

AraJingleBellScott · 25/12/2023 16:29

There is no way I could vote for the party that put Isla Bryson in a woman's jail. I can discuss or debate most policies and see.the different motivations, reasoning and thinking.

But to suggest that a man can be put in a woman's jail is an outrage to reason and morality.

PermanentTemporary · 25/12/2023 15:41

Not really. I'm voting Lib Dem tactically to keep a Tory out.

This government has is so stratospherically incompetent, they genuinely frighten me. We've been at the mercy of Farage, Steve Baker, Rees-Mogg and other hideous individuals sniping from the right for 13 years. At first they were outside chivvying Cameron to push to the right, then God help us they were in the Cabinet. Braverman has left the Home Office in a total administrative mess, even if I agreed with her policies, which obviously I don't. The only things this lot got right were Hong Kong and Ukraine. Hong Kong is probably a major factor in us still having an economy.

Labour have shifted enough for me to feel OK about voting in a way that supports them. All the parties fight like rats in a sack on this issue, because there are women behind the scenes who aren't letting go. God you should see the Lib Dem WhatsApp groups. Stay in and fight.

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 25/12/2023 15:32

Heylo · 25/12/2023 12:54

@TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening I feel you. Dawn Butlers response symbolises everything I'm worried about with Labour. Lisa Nandy also seems totally deluded 'my heart breaks' but just not for the vulnerable women who have been attacked in jails.

What the hell happened to Labour they've lost their minds over the last ten years.

So open minded, their brains fell out.
It's completely insane as we all know.

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 25/12/2023 15:29

@Heylo
I'm in Scotland.
Obviously I won't touch the SNP, Libs, Labour, Greens, that leaves me the Torys, and ouch.
As a single mother, and a disabled one at that, they've never done anything for me.

I never thought I'd be a single issue voter, but I'm considering it.
It's either that or spoil.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 25/12/2023 15:03

At present my MP is Steve Baker, though we worked hard to try to get rid of him last time.

I shall not be voting for him.

It's possible that if she turns out not to be a loon I might vote for the Labour candidate (Emma Reynolds, but I lack information about her); otherwise I may end up writing "None of the above" on my ballot for the first time in over fifty years of never not voting in an election – after all, my grandmother chained herself to railings to get me that vote, and I wouldn't want to disrespect Granny, she'd be a terrifying haunt.

HagoftheNorth · 25/12/2023 14:58

I’ve voted Green, Labour, Lib Dem & Tory in the past - based on the manifesto and particular candidates.

I disagree with pp’s who say the Tory’s have presided over this mess - if it had been Labour in charge, I think we’d now be much closer to the `Canadian/Australian experience. There’s a reason we’re known as terf island!

Not sure which way I’ll vote this time, but women’s rights will be core to my decision, and it’s hard to see any choice but Tory - but there’s a long way to go, so 🤞 we’ll have a wider realistic choice come polling day

DewHopper · 25/12/2023 13:03

I voted for Blair back in the day although I consider myself centre right.

The current Labour Party are an absolute disgrace on women's rights and whilst Rosie Duffield is demonised and ostracised and idiots like Dawn Butler are feted and promoted, the LP is sending a very clear message to women. I am listening and take note and will not vote for them ever again - the betrayal is huge.

Not sure if I can bring myself to vote for my current MP - in a very safe Tory constituency so my vote is worthless in any case - so may well spoil my ballot again with one of KJK's stickers.
If I had a feisty female Tory MP who was standing up for women I would have no qualms about voting Tory but my MP is a limp man who does nothing for the area really.

Heylo · 25/12/2023 12:54

@TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening I feel you. Dawn Butlers response symbolises everything I'm worried about with Labour. Lisa Nandy also seems totally deluded 'my heart breaks' but just not for the vulnerable women who have been attacked in jails.

What the hell happened to Labour they've lost their minds over the last ten years.

OP posts:
TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 25/12/2023 12:51

It absolutely will, I was wavering but Dawn Butler finished me off.
Take note if you're reading.
No way will I touch labour now.

RandySavage · 25/12/2023 12:38

I won’t be voting Tory, but I’d like to highlight this:

“I just don't like the hypocrisy of saying the Tories are the party of women's rights. They're not.”

Labour and the libs sometimes talk a good game about equality for women, but where is the action? There have been three (!) Tory female PMs - Labour have never even had a woman as party leader.

I will be voting Labour as I spoke to my Labour candidate and I was reassured by his answers on this subject. Best of a poor lot of choices. The only thing that might change my mind is if we have an SDP candidate.

flyingbuttress43 · 25/12/2023 12:37

I'm a second wave feminist who despairs at what is happening to our rights. I am politically homeless. Tories definitely don't care about women - their only saving grace is that they appear to know what a woman actually is, which is not true of any of the other major parties, so can't vote for them either.

The best thing the Tories could do is to bring in legislation before the election to put an end to this horrible trans mess. Sort of "stuff you" - we are going down but will at least bequeath the country some legislation that will save our children, stop the brainwashing in schools, universities and by government, non-government bodies and business. Then, if Labour when they win, want to pander to 0.5%k of the population at the expense of 50% they will have to have the balls to reverse the legislation. That will end well (not).