Why are so many women hellbent on acting against their own interest?

Who ever knew that The Most Correct Woman Who Ever Lived would come to post on MN.

Is there a significant difference between self-destruction and self-erasure, @ArabellaScott ?

I’d add that the topic title here reads as a variation of ‘women are their own worst enemies’ (sad shake of the head) another sexist trope.

You are talking down to other women as though they are children.

I think there’s nothing wrong with considering the issues you have mentioned and the various perspectives on these.

But you are not considering the possibility that many women hold differing opinions to you, not because they are all lower down on the hierarchy of enlightenment and emancipation, but because they have considered the issues at hand and have arrived at a different conclusion.

I don’t even disagree on some of the topics you’ve mentioned (which are disparate), but I do accept that there is more than one valid perspective.

You are not actually engaging in a discussion of these issues here as for you it is already a foregone conclusion that you are right, and the question is just what is wrong with women.

Oh @Psychoticbreak I hear you but have you ever thought why you feel good with smooth pits, high heels, and a full face of slap? Or why British women want smooth pits but German ones don’t?

We are sold a vision of ‘feminity’ and ‘glamour’ from such an early stage that for many of us it becomes hard-wired into our identity.
And, as @Bluecat7 says, non-conformity to this vision, brings negative consequences - as witness all the older women who completely mutilate their faces because otherwise they will lose ‘relevance’.

You might be interested to read up on the coining of the phrase “Stockholm Syndrome”, because it’s a really shocking and misogynist story.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stockholm-syndrome-meaning-bank-robbery-b2399531.html

I love having soft smooth legs and pits and other bits (all of them and ALL for me as I am single) I love painted toenails and fingernails, love my makeup and doing my own hair but when I was married I never changed my maiden name.

Partly it’s hard not to do some of these things - like leg shaving - without adverse comments. I don’t wear much in the way of make-up, have never owned heels and am going grey naturally. I didn’t think twice about giving up my maiden name though- and have never regretted it. I suppose if you are consciously aware of what you are doing and why, that helps.

@thedankness I have excellent skin and am very comfortable with my bare face. I think it's linked to only ever wearing more than mascara and lip gloss on special occasions. My pores have always been allowed to breathe. Not for feminist reasons (although there are and I am one) but because I do a lot of exercise. Theres no point in wearing powder or creams that will simply be sweated or swum off.

Also the patriarchy (1) places a high value on women’s decorative qualities and (2) encourages them to be consumers so that they are more interested in shoes than running the world. This gives rise to the (specious) argument that women’s interest in fashion is motivated by the desire to impress other women and therefore interest in appearance is nothing to do with the patriarchy at all.

Time and again this topic comes up and confuses me. I LIKE to wear heels, I LIKE to wear makeup, I LIKE to look the way I look. It is not society that has made me want to look this way I just like to look good to me on the outside knowing I am also good on the inside. It is an insult to be told otherwise and it is getting relentlessly boring as a topic too. If you chose not to do anything with your hair or face or body then fine but why judge people who do? We are not walking vacuous idiots we just fancy being more like a butterfly than a moth.

I am with you, OP, but I think it’s not immediately obvious in a transactional relationship whether power lies with the buyer or the seller - hence ‘girl power’ (vom), ‘sex work is work’, ‘my boob job was for me’ etc.
Plus, as remarked up thread, the brainwashing power of the patriarchy.

It's not just women is it though? Humans in general does so many things that are bad for us. It's because it's easier, short terms gains, makes us feel good.

I don’t think I’ve been disrespectful at all!

I’m not sure where you’ve got that from, or why you think I now have to leave Mumsnet

Hm. I enthusiastically embraced self destructive behaviour at that age/era. But I don't know that I'd ever have managed to embrace the very basic reality-warping that TWAW calls for.

Ok I see I am going to get hate.

Did you really just say that?

I agree.

Also, all the women changing their names when they get married because
a). They hate their "maiden" name
b). They want to have the same name as their children/husband so they feel little a family. Why can't the husband change his to her name?
c). It's easier to travel/doctors /schools etc
c). They hate their own father
d). The husband was very attached to his name but they weren't bothered
e). Their "maiden" name was their father's so it doesn't make any difference as it's a man's name anyway.

I was exactly the right age for 'Laddette' culture. I did not at the time know that I was a feminist - the bra-burners had succeeded and we had equal rights protected in law, plus I didn't hate men. (I know, I know.)

But Laddette didn't sit right to me. It felt like we were lowering ourselves to the level of the men whose behaviour toward us we disliked.

Yes, I was called an old-fashioned prude for this.

Perhaps today's TWAWs are yesterday's Laddettes, or would have been?

This is a discussion board. If you find it so hard to discuss sensitive issues and different views with women respectfully, maybe Mumsnet is not the place for you? There are other places on the internet 🤔

I mean:

I feel like we are groomed into self-hate.

You have it right there.

See also: 'fawn' being one of the fight/flight/freeze responses.