Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Police interviewing Jolyon Maugham

36 replies

fromorbit · 22/12/2023 10:31

It seems the Rozzers may be too busy dealing with the fox killer to come after Mumsnet now.

Police question barrister Jolyon Maugham for tweeting that Brianna Ghey's killers 'exchanged transphobic slurs' while murder trial was still going on
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12893145/police-barrister-jolyon-maugham-brianna-ghey-tweet-killers-transphobic-slurs-trial.html

Police question barrister Jolyon Maugham over Brianna Ghey trial tweet

Maugham, founder of the Good Law Project and a staunch supporter of trans rights, was castigated by a judge who said the comment was potentially in contempt of court.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12893145/police-barrister-jolyon-maugham-brianna-ghey-tweet-killers-transphobic-slurs-trial.html

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
mach2 · 23/12/2023 14:26

I'd remove this "hate crime" stuff that has worked it's way into the law and into police practice altogether. Especially the "non-crime hate incident" stuff.

OwlWeiwei · 22/12/2023 15:54

Hicc · 22/12/2023 12:38

I wonder if the rise in TRActivism and awareness of the clash with the women's rights and harms to children, have led to more media coverage? Not a rise in hatred.

Perhaps the hysteria about the fragility of trans people by certain organisations has also made them feel more vulnerable?

And when can women report misogyny as a hate crime? Except we wouldn't because we are often desensitised to it, or simply don't have the time to be making reports every month.

It was ruled not long ago that misogyny is not a hate crime. In a baffling logic, here's the conclusion:

The Law Commission concluded in its ‘Hate Crime Laws: Final Report (PDF, 3.2MB)’ (published 7 December 2021) that making misogyny a hate crime may be: “more harmful than helpful, both to victims of violence against women and girls, and also to efforts to tackle hate crime more broadly” and that “…we have reached the view that hate crime recognition would not be an effective solution to the very real problem of violence, abuse and harassment of women and girls in England and Wales, and may in fact be counterproductive in some respects.”

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/12/2023 15:51

It's a very defensive comment from a privileged and wealthy man with considerable legal knowledge who should understand basic judicial laws about contempt of court. His original comments were indefensible and one would have hoped that he'd been interviewed under caution for such an appalling set of tweets.

It could be argued that the lack of any sanction is a worrying sign of privileged treatment on the basis of sex, class and occupation :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12893145/police-barrister-jolyon-maugham-brianna-ghey-tweet-killers-transphobic-slurs-trial.html

Police question barrister Jolyon Maugham over Brianna Ghey trial tweet

Maugham, founder of the Good Law Project and a staunch supporter of trans rights, was castigated by a judge who said the comment was potentially in contempt of court.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12893145/police-barrister-jolyon-maugham-brianna-ghey-tweet-killers-transphobic-slurs-trial.html

BeBraveLittlePenguin · 22/12/2023 15:42

I think, if you squint, you can discern a difference between, they came to question me, rather than they dropped round as the Judge's own personal Deliveroo to pass on some comments.
Maybe there is a point of principle for him that he immediately rolled over, rather than arguing back?
He's no longer practising though, I believe.

IcakethereforeIamInnocent · 22/12/2023 15:36

Yes, he wasn't questioned by the Police but, he was questioned by the Police is what he's saying. Seems perfectly clear to me Xmas Confused

hallouminatus · 22/12/2023 15:22

A lot of responses on X asking in what sense the headline is 'flatly untrue' or even misleading. Plenty of responses agreeing with Maugham that it's untrue, but nobody explains how. I can't see how the headline could be interpreted to imply anything other than what Maugham himself admits happened. Can anyone enlighten me?

jcakey · 22/12/2023 15:15

The dipped in blood comment is horrendous. It is just so irresponsible to speculate on suicide in that way. Where has he got those stats from and why is it possible to collate trans-specific victim of crime and suicide stats but, in so many other areas (such as when recording perpetrators of crime) this data is merged into statistics relating to women and men?

MargotBamborough · 22/12/2023 14:58

WickDittington · 22/12/2023 13:26

I hate the way the police have been overtly politicised. Maugham should have known better, as a trained barrister( or is he a solicitor?) but I can’t crow over this.

it’s awful when the police are used as a TRA weapon against women; but this policing of TRA’s opinion is just as bad in the way that it concretises and embeds the political use of the police.

The arrest of Louise Distra was awful. It felt like a police state. But the police should not be used by either side.

And for the avoidance of all doubt I do not think that there is a “both sides are as bad” argument here. We are fighting desperately for our sex-based rights which men like Maugham are trying to undermine. But neither do I want to live in a state where the police are called to arrest anyone for wrongthink.

I'm not sure that's what has happened here though, is it?

This isn't a gender critical organisation reporting Jolyon to the police. This is the judge in an ongoing court case sending the police to question him in connection with potential contempt of court.

WickDittington · 22/12/2023 14:54

Thanks for that @PronounssheRa and others who’ve added details - I’m not using Twitter atm.

Of course a KC should be disciplined for this.

I suppose I just find the weaponisation of a young person’s death to be really depressing but I also can’t crow over Maugham being disciplined. He shouldn’t have behaved so badly in the first place.

Sorry, I think I’m just sick of the gender ideologies. Been in the trenches with this stuff for the last 6 years and just want it to stop. As we all do.

RoyalWhoDidYouSayNooneOfthatNameHereOfficer · 22/12/2023 14:50

"No exaggeration to say its hands are dipped in blood."

I would say this is practically the dictionary definition of exaggeration.

I've long suspected our fox-killing friend is deranged, and this has more or less confirmed it.

Floisme · 22/12/2023 14:31

PronounssheRa · 22/12/2023 12:58

I have not been questioned by the police, I was asked questions by the police at the behest of a high court judge.

That isn't quite the correction Jolyon thinks it is. He really does love his technicalities though.

To be fair, I imagine this is exactly the kind of thinking one would look for in a tax lawyer.

TrainedByCats · 22/12/2023 14:23

WickDittington · 22/12/2023 13:26

I hate the way the police have been overtly politicised. Maugham should have known better, as a trained barrister( or is he a solicitor?) but I can’t crow over this.

it’s awful when the police are used as a TRA weapon against women; but this policing of TRA’s opinion is just as bad in the way that it concretises and embeds the political use of the police.

The arrest of Louise Distra was awful. It felt like a police state. But the police should not be used by either side.

And for the avoidance of all doubt I do not think that there is a “both sides are as bad” argument here. We are fighting desperately for our sex-based rights which men like Maugham are trying to undermine. But neither do I want to live in a state where the police are called to arrest anyone for wrongthink.

For Jolyon Maugham the police are involved because what he said could have undermined the trial. It wouldn’t have mattered whose side he was on or what the topic was.

So it’s not a question of wrongthink, he simply didn’t follow the rules of the legal process - which as a KC who is fond of bringing cases against others he really has no excuse.

Soontobe60 · 22/12/2023 14:16

Floisme · 22/12/2023 14:02

At least JM will have Fair Cop to turn to if it does turn out that the police have overstepped the mark.

😂

Original poster
fromorbit · 22/12/2023 14:13

I liked this twitter summary of the JM's 2023:

"Over the last year, Jolyon has blown £623,895 of crowdfunded donations on nine legal defeats in court, been forced to apologise to the Chair of the Environment Agency, launched a laughable boycott of Gail's bakeries, and narrowly avoided imprisonment for contempt of court."

As for Transphobia what do you call a rich man who grifts 100,000s of pounds from gender distressed people for cases which he is never going to win. He loses most of his cases because he is a technically a bad lawyer. He is good at making money.

Do we think JM was out there supporting this kind of stuff when there was NO money in it. Of course he wasn't. He specialised in taxation law for most of his career i.e making more money for rich people.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/12/2023 14:06

Is the Bar Standards Board going to do anything about him? It's not the first time he's said something like this, and this was jeopardising an extremely sensitive and important trial.

Floisme · 22/12/2023 14:02

At least JM will have Fair Cop to turn to if it does turn out that the police have overstepped the mark.

topnoddy · 22/12/2023 14:00

PronounssheRa · 22/12/2023 12:58

I have not been questioned by the police, I was asked questions by the police at the behest of a high court judge.

That isn't quite the correction Jolyon thinks it is. He really does love his technicalities though.

Goes with the job

inkjet · 22/12/2023 13:57

This completely different to when TRAs use the police to go after women. It wasn’t because of women getting the police to do their bidding that JM was spoken to by the police.

ArabellaScott · 22/12/2023 13:51

Plus that statement is so far down so many prejudiced rabbitholes it's downright weird.

For one, what 'transphobic hate', for two, to suggest a direct correlation between that and suicide is highly irresponsible, and for three to use the phrase 'dipped in blood' is not only weird but weirdly visceral and hugely distasteful given that he is talking about an actual child who was brutally murdered.

You are a horrible, horrible person, Jolyon Maugham.

ArabellaScott · 22/12/2023 13:49

Hicc · 22/12/2023 12:32

And related, he also says this:

'dipped in blood'?!

I'm usually impressed by law-affiliated bods at how measured and thoughtful their phrasing is.

For that reason, this is exceptionally surprising.

nettie434 · 22/12/2023 13:35

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/12/2023 13:21

He's not exactly a random on the internet. He identifies as a KC. They're held to very high standards surely? A KC posting his personal thoughts about children involved in a terrible murder trial during the case, oblivious to contempt of court guidelines defies belief.

That's displaying a shameful level of emotional incontinence for a legal professional.

I think it's really important to make this distinction between someone who should know better and a member of the general public.

It's clear that the killers' motivations were complicated and that Brianna was in the wrong place at the wrong time rather than being a specific target. We can all feel sad at the murder of a young person without trying to make the facts fit what we want them to be, not what they are.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 22/12/2023 13:33

Scotland have extremely strict contempt of court laws. He isn't being policed for wrong think, he's being policed for potentially breaking those specific laws.

PronounssheRa · 22/12/2023 13:31

The police weren't being used by any side this wasn't about wrong think. They were asked, by a high court judge to have a word with Jolyon because he was tweeting things that were potential contempt of court.

WickDittington · 22/12/2023 13:31

I agree @Topofthemountain but in this case, it’s all adding to an atmosphere of policing of thought. But yes, if this is the usual process for contempt of court then I hope it’s followed through.

Topofthemountain · 22/12/2023 13:29

But neither do I want to live in a state where the police are called to arrest anyone for wrongthink.

It wasn't "wrong think" it was potential contempt of court. Someone in his position should know better.