Sex matters when it comes to Non-Binary races

Third author listed is George Perry:

https://spectator.org/usa-cycling-attempts-to-justify-men-racing-against-women/

And I note that one of the authors is Alice Sullivan, so that pretty much nails it.

@DworkinWasRight i agree they have deliberately set out to demonstrate the obvious. In the paper they detail how they worked out the probability of a competitor being male - using a BINARY system of zero or one! They definitely know.

I know it seems ridiculous but papers need to use data to prove the ridiculous - such as non binary is bullshit

Excellent use of words there! Thanks.

It’s obvious from this article that the researchers knew exactly what they were doing - so good for them.

Krampussy · 21/12/2023 21:11

Or just by looking at them.

Or, indeed, listening to their gushing, self-aggrandising "victory" speeches, in which they browbeat and harangue the audience with "facts" about how they haven't got any advantages over real women.

https://thecritic.co.uk/when-sex-matters-more-than-gender-identity/

Although the performance gap remained similar, the absolute values were lower for these participants vs an average population.

That's worth knowing.

I think:

Gender identity was a significant factor when the sex was the same.

Sex was the significant factor when all participants had the same gender identity.

Yeah... but given the results..

Results: There was no evidence that controlling for age, natal-sex differences in running performance are lower among non-binary athletes. Natal-male non-binary athletes outperform natal-female non-binary athletes at a confidence level of p=0.1%.

How can they conclude that gender identty is a useful explanatory variable?? or that there is any value in including gender identity as a variable.

Conclusions Both natal sex and gender identity may be useful explanatory variables for the performance of athletes in mass-participation races. It is, therefore, valuable to include both variables in data collection.

To me.. it seems an illogical conclusion based on the results.

I agree @Ofcourseshecan

Because if you don't have an actual paper to link to, a TRA interlocutor will just post some guff from Scientific American or some "study" of 8 MTFs and say "see you're just ignoring the science!"

But it is useful when research confirms what most people have observed, or what common sense leads most people to believe. Saying “Everyone knows that XYZ” is easy to contradict if you have no data to support XYZ.

I don’t know how many people were counted in the study Hellebore quotes. But it shows some unsurprising connections, especially with mental health problems.

Data gathered on gender non-conforming college students by the American College Health Association suggest that gender non-conforming students are less likely to meet exercise recommendations, have increased rates of obesity and have higher rates of physical and mental health issues; these factors affect levels of fitness and training status.

@HagoftheNorth this type of research often appears in the Christmas time BMJ too. I suspect that the researchers did this in their own time because of their own passion for the topic. Perhaps a shame that their novel technique was not extended to include the trusty “endofbedogram” also known as “eyeballing” a clinical technique that is often a rich source of information.

< sighs >

I thought this was going to be another one of those stupid things as we are continually being told we are racist if we deny the fabulous ones. You know... non-binary age, non-binary sex, non-binary race. But no. It's about non-binaries actually running in competitions.

I think it qualifies. improbable.com/ig/about-the-ig-nobel-prizes/ig-nobel-nominations/?amp=1

I wonder if this paper could be put forward for an Ig Nobel award?

Desperate that medical research resources have been wasted on this completely obvious study

Even more desperate that this study is absolutely required and no doubt we’ll be referencing it regularly over the next few years

i hope the narcissistic drivers of this nonsense are happy that it is taking time and attention from the actual issues our societies face (poverty, climate change, international relations…)

This is brilliant. It’s so obvious but so barmy that they’ve studied it anyway. And then written about it in a dead-pan comedy genius paper. Heroes!

And light is invisible.

“A novel technique…based on their given names”: but what if the athlete had changed name or had a “non-binary” name - how would the researchers have been able to know the sex of the athlete? I mean, what other method could they have used? 🤦‍♀️

Probabilistically

This Tweet (or is it now this X) is very insightful re my comment of this being the obvious:

x.com/johnarmstrong5/status/1737788685016252661?s=20

Of course gender identity makes a difference to performance. If you don't know the gender identity how would you know how to assess levels of stunning and brave?

This is too funny. Kudos to those researchers.