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Original poster

Finally: Gender questioning children: draft schools and colleges guidance

503 replies

WarriorN · 19/12/2023 10:37

Gender questioning children: draft schools and colleges guidance

consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/

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Datun · 19/12/2023 13:23

in a way, I hope it is contested. Because we all know that any kind of confrontation exposes the lack of logic, the lack of safeguarding, the ridiculous language being used, the conflation with sexual orientation, and of course all the lies about statistics.

The more people see this, the better.

And it might force the government into a more stringent course of action. Or, at the very least, we will get to watch Kemi annihilate anyone who has the bollocks to address it.

Beowulfa · 19/12/2023 13:22

WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:17

Uh oh.

Now to a lawyer who's represented trans people before.

Thinks there may be legal challenges. Direct discrimination.

I'd be really interested to fully understand his reasoning.

Bring it on. Let's see coverage of the legal case in which teachers insist a teenage boy should be allowed into the girls' changing rooms because his "heart is pink".

Glamourreader · 19/12/2023 13:21

I think this guidance is fantastic, beautifully easy to read and understand it clearly aims to protect all children.

I'm so hoping this will impact on the NHS, in my local hospital the female toilets are self ID but they are used by adults and children every day.

whenindoubtgotothelibrary · 19/12/2023 13:21

For competitive sports, schools and colleges should be aware that without separate sex participation, it is unlikely that they will be offering equal opportunities to boys and girls.

Very pleased about this, with the recognition that equal opps does actually apply to girls and that they do exist, actually, and can be named.

One of our local single sex schools will have to reverse its policy of banning the collective use of 'girls' too.

The guidance seems sensible and pragmatic, based on law rather than rainbow wishes and 'feelings'. Terfmas indeed.

Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:21

He didn't really sound too convincing re how legal challenges would be brought after conceded that children have different rights to adults.

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Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:20

Mentions Liz Truss (I had no idea she was such as terf) saying it's not going far enough.

'Joseph Navas' ?

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2023 13:19

Who's the lawyer Warrior?

Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:18

As trans adults.

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Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:18

The interviewer brings up "contested belief."

Lawyer is conceding that children do not have the same rights in law.

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Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:17

Uh oh.

Now to a lawyer who's represented trans people before.

Thinks there may be legal challenges. Direct discrimination.

I'd be really interested to fully understand his reasoning.

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Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:16

Barton is referring to law a lot.

He sounds pretty encouraged about it. Which is good.

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Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:15

sorry Jeff I think I misjeffed you

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2023 13:13

Quite a balanced report from the BBC. Self interested interview with a transman that offered no insight into the dilemmas for schools but I thought the rest was thoughtful. Pleased to see Jeff Barton (Headteachers) thought at first glance it looked positive.
I suspect this will be the start of schools rowing back on the excessive levels of transactivism that some have allowed. It gives authority to the staff who know this social grooming of children is wrong. The guidance is not written in an inflammatory way and repeatedly evidences the law.

EasternStandard · 19/12/2023 13:12

duc748 · 19/12/2023 13:11

Labour's response is going to be interesting.

It will. I hope they directly answer

Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:12

Geoff seems to think it's all v helpful so far...

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duc748 · 19/12/2023 13:11

Labour's response is going to be interesting.

Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:10

Geoff Barton commenting now...

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Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 13:10

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2023 13:01

The BBC are leading with this on the 1 o'clock news. Interesting to see their take on it.

Gender ideology...This is a contested belief

Said v clearly on world at 1.

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Datun · 19/12/2023 13:02

If these children can't be referred to as opposite sex pronouns and can't compete in the wrong sex sport and can't use the facilities of the wrong sex, I suspect the number of children 'coming out' is going to diminish very swiftly.

And as for that mermaid TikTok video, that is not going to wear well.

Children diagnosed with gender dysphoria, aren't coming out as anything other than having a psychological issue. Suggesting this is kept from their parents is a terrible look. Especially for a charity whose trustees had links to paedophilia and online pornography.

MrsOvertonsWindow

thank you so much for all your explanations and opinions about all this. It's invaluable.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2023 13:01

The BBC are leading with this on the 1 o'clock news. Interesting to see their take on it.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2023 12:54

maltravers · 19/12/2023 12:52

It’s heartening I agree, but is there still a problem because of the definition of boys and girls etc? Where are we if school/teacher X says, yes but Nigel(formerly a boy)is now Nigella, female and a girl (even without a GRC obviously) so goes in with the girls..? Are we clear that schools will apply single sex in the way that we mean it?

I think reality about the definition of the sexes is accepted in basic education legislation relating to admissions etc ?

maltravers · 19/12/2023 12:52

It’s heartening I agree, but is there still a problem because of the definition of boys and girls etc? Where are we if school/teacher X says, yes but Nigel(formerly a boy)is now Nigella, female and a girl (even without a GRC obviously) so goes in with the girls..? Are we clear that schools will apply single sex in the way that we mean it?

AbnerBrown · 19/12/2023 12:49

Amazed that the intro contains the phrase “gender identity ideology”.

Delighted to see importance of single sex washing and changing spaces highlighted.

And no child sleeping in accommodation with the opposite sex. (Erm, paging Girl Guides…)

Original poster
WarriorN · 19/12/2023 12:47

Tanya Carter of SSAUK mentioned in bbc report

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67754359

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2023 12:46

It's the whole unthinking culture branded " acceptance" but in reality promoting anti fact, intolerance and male supremacy isn't it?
So toxic yet marketed as "kindness".

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