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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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MsGoodenough · 13/01/2024 09:55

Sorry forgot to add: this is why we all need to respond to the consultation, and also make clear our views to our children's schools.

MsGoodenough · 13/01/2024 09:54

My Head has also told me that they won't be implementing any of the new guidance at this stage as it is out for consultation. They have also urged all staff to respond to the consultation. They are clearly hoping it will be quashed.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/01/2024 21:10

It is depressing. While our backs are turned (often for understandable reasons) those pushing this ideology get an even tighter grip on children persuading more and more of them that their bodies are flawed but "we can fix it for you"

WarriorN · 12/01/2024 21:03

it's so depressing isn't it.

I feel like schools have no option but to have influence from outside providers. My own school's safeguarding training recently switch from LA to a private company. If this guidance goes through, it will only be the tip of the iceberg

MsGoodenough · 12/01/2024 20:54

I've just hear that all school Governors in my area are going to get training from the Metro charity. Who are totally steeped in Stonewall and Mermaids. It's like the new guidance just doesn't exist....

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2024 09:35

It's called "Governors For Schools"

HoneyButterPopcorn · 09/01/2024 09:31

I can’t see - which charity is this?

WarriorN · 09/01/2024 09:20

IcakethereforeIam · 06/01/2024 21:39

Missed this, bloody hell.

This charity recruits and presumably TRAINS school governors.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/12/2023 18:51

TediousMansplainer · 20/12/2023 18:44

What does the guidance mean on p10 when it refers to "transgender males who felt pressured to come out as lesbian rather than transgender"? I'm confused. Does it mean that some people were telling trans men that they were really lesbians and not trans men? Or is it referring to trans women?

The language is slightly confusing but if you read the whole para in context it's talking about lesbians being coerced to identify as boys / men &
boys / men feeling pressured to identify as lesbians (conversion therapy)

"Is there an interaction with a child’s sexual orientation? Schools and colleges should note that the Cass Review ‘heard from young lesbians who felt pressured to identify as transgender male, and conversely transgender males who felt pressured to come out as lesbian rather than transgender’. Where a child discloses that they are also questioning or exploring their sexual orientation, schools should make clear that they are under no pressure to reach a particular outcome".

TediousMansplainer · 20/12/2023 18:44

What does the guidance mean on p10 when it refers to "transgender males who felt pressured to come out as lesbian rather than transgender"? I'm confused. Does it mean that some people were telling trans men that they were really lesbians and not trans men? Or is it referring to trans women?

VivienneDelacroix · 20/12/2023 18:24

HoneyButterPopcorn · 19/12/2023 09:27

When I was at school, my sisters year had self harmers (mostly girls) who would swoon around with scratches on their wrists (nothing actually ‘harmful’ - more melodrama) and my year had goths.

Our eldest sister - fashion was for denim denim and more denim, my brother - long hair and distressed jeans, another sister - David Bowie and glam rock.

These were the tribes du jour.

School wasn’t handing out razor blades (or rather pencil sharpener blades), perm lotion, or black eyeliner.

Why are teachers now so involved in the lives of the children they interact with for a few hours a week (in a group). They aren’t therapists, psychologists or the parents of these kids.

Do you think schools are handing out items to facilitate transition? 😲
What kind of things? Testosterone? Binders? Packers? Knives so they can maim themselves?

Floisme · 20/12/2023 17:44

WarriorN · 20/12/2023 17:02

Oh same clip!

Yes that's the one. There's still a long way to go before I'd be prepared to trust them again, but nevertheless I thought it was a big improvement on that petulant display from Anneliese Dodds in the Commons the other week.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/12/2023 17:42

It is dystopian isn't it pronounsbundlebundle ?
I do take heart from knowing that many schools have held the line in centring children. And hope that the consultation process will enable the majority of adults who know all this is wrong to voice their views openly for the first time in years.
Teachers, parents and most importantly children are terrified of being accused of transphobia / being a bigot. This isn't going to be easy as for too long the bullies have held the power. But we finally have so many fantastic women and men speaking out with confidence that I'm optimistic others will start to follow their lead?

pronounsbundlebundle · 20/12/2023 17:35

And just to add, the whole point of a 'safeguarding culture' and 'safeguarding is for everyone' is really meant to be that you won't suffer harm by raising a safeguarding concern even if it's entirely wrong.

Which is clearly not the case any more.

pronounsbundlebundle · 20/12/2023 17:19

@MrsOvertonsWindow

What I find so frustrating is that - obviously - teachers balance a wide range of needs every day - every second that they're working. And yet, on this one issue alone all reason and normal practice has fled in some schools (but not all).

The 'no debate' culture is highly responsible for a lot of harm as many sensible teachers have felt (very reasonable) fear that their livelihoods would be impacted by speaking safeguarding sense.

The case of the teacher who was sacked for refusing to use wrong sex pronouns (thereby putting the needs of the majority over the minority not to mention safeguarding the child in question) is horrifying. Recommend everyone watches this.

So much for a safeguarding culture. How can ANYONE feel safe to raise a safeguarding concern if they can be prohibited from working in this way. It's abuse of process.

It's abuse of the DBS system in general - people should only be barred if a serious risk to children which not using preferred prounouns is just not - and it sounds as if a LADO referred to the DBS in part on the basis that this man was 'right wing' (which is a leap from raising a safeguarding concern - are only right wing people concerned about safeguarding?).

The capture is horrifying - it's the upside down where the safeguarding process is weaponised against those raising legitimate safeguarding concerns. All parents should be terrified.

Properly dystopian stuff. Just to be clear, this has been going on since February 2022. They've blocked him from working as a Maths teacher for almost 2 years. A job he did for 18 years.

And if everyone who's 'right wing' is banned from getting a DBS schools won't have enough teachers.

https://twitter.com/KevsTribulation/status/1732718767740711394

Teacher fired for misgendering says wokeness being used to completely destroy discussion in schools

'This is a tool that can see any kind of free speech, debate, or discussion in school completely destroyed.' Kevin Lister discusses being sacked for 'misgend...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4utpaP6SWc

WarriorN · 20/12/2023 17:02

Oh same clip!

WarriorN · 20/12/2023 17:02

Maybe from this?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=_0vT9OTshXI&t

Floisme · 20/12/2023 16:55

I can only link to a Labour Women's Declaration Twitter thread but it sounds like Bridget Phillipson (Shadow Secretary of State for Education) might have spoken positively about the guidance:

https://twitter.com/LabWomenDec/status/1737429135121674450

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/12/2023 16:25

Another great post pronounsbundlebundle.
As a teacher on a number of occasions I've been on my hands and knees peering under toilet doors searching for a missing vulnerable child who's expressed suicidal / self harming thoughts, has taken an overdose or is just hiding from others in fear.

All these children matter - there should be no "sacred caste" in schools.

pronounsbundlebundle · 20/12/2023 16:07

The toilets are a good example of how ideological capture in public institutions has put children in danger. They've ONLY focused on one protected characteristic and made toilets that are better (according to a very small lobby group) for that but worse, in safety terms, for epileptic children and indeed any children who could be at risk in a locked toilet that is difficult to see into or open in an emergency. This includes a very wide range of children with disabilities and medical conditions as well as ALL children as any child can have a health crisis that comes out of the blue. Children quite often get head injuries at school - they could quite easily go to one of these toilets, become unconscious and not be missed until quite significant amounts of time has passed. Then you have the difficulty of finding where the child is whereas a quick look below the partitions in single sex toilets would take a few seconds.

They also breach - unless very carefully designed - existing law about single sex toilets for children over 8.

Yet all these institutions (and apparently some teachers) are jumping up and down about how gender questioning kids might be discriminated against and there could possibly be some legal challenge with apparently no concern whatsoever that epileptic children are being made massively unsafe by these single occupancy floor to ceiling toilets, nor that the law which exists about single sex toilets for the over 8s is merrily being broken left right and centre and the impacts this has on a wide range of students including those with the protected characteristic of religion.

Concern about discrimination and breaking of the law in schools seems extremely selective. And quite clearly there is no real concern from a whole range of institutions until recently for what is in the best interests of and maximises safeguarding and wellbeing for ALL the children in a school. Balancing needs.

It's a huge strategic safeguarding failure.

Froodwithatowel · 20/12/2023 15:09

We need a Public Inquiry to clean this ideological possession out of gov and mandate deradicalisation of the education sector

Yes.

And it will come.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 20/12/2023 15:02

At my children school, the toilets are on either side of the room - the children decided to make one side boys and one side girls, with open wash basins in the middle.

I dont know how these were passes by local authorities because the children obviously dont have single sex washing facilities in this set up.

thirdfiddle · 20/12/2023 14:42

A local secondary school was completed 7 years ago, with mixed sex single cubicle loos (floor to ceiling, off corridors) and gender queer symbols on those doors. Which means it was planned to be like that then.
So queuing for the loo in the corridors? And 11 yr old girls expected to queue with 15 yr old or 17 yr old boys? And only one door between you sorting out your sanpro and whoever's in the queue or walking past? As a couple of extra third spaces it's a good idea. For everyone I'm not keen.

One school I visit which has a unisex loo also has regular issues with doors not properly shutting - cheap construction (because nobody has a luxury budget for school loos) plus no gap at the bottom means they drag on the floor after a few months. And with being in an absolutely disgusting state, never once seen anything like it in the girls' school.

WarriorN · 20/12/2023 14:25

Great post from safe schools alliance

x.com/safeschools_uk/status/1737472951698559354?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Always worth reminding ourselves how & why some very vulnerable children were removed from #safeguarding frameworks. A #PublicInquiry is needed into how the safeguarding frameworks themselves were infiltrated.

These clauses have stopped teachers & others working with children from recognising the unique vulnerabilities of children just discovering a same sex attraction, especially when searching for information online.

It has also prevented professional curiosity around what has preceded a child announcing an opposite sex identity & them then receiving the help & support they need.

Remind us what your expertise in this area actually is @NancyMK?

#SafeguardingFail #PolicyFail #RestoreSafeguarding #WomenEd #Edutwitter

(Nancy is quoting KCSIE that states that trans isn't a safeguarding concern.)