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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2023 11:09

CriticalCondition · 19/12/2023 10:56

Kevin Sexton didn't sound very bright to me. All the buzzwords, not much engagement of brain. No surprise the school is a Stonewall champion. His statement about teachers finding employment at another school If they don't use preferred pronouns was rather chilling. I wonder if the governors are aware of the Forstater judgment. Or how Stonewall's response to one of their own being sued is to say 'nothing to do with us mate'.

The guidance states that pronouns should not be changed in primary schools.It also states:
"It is expected that there will be very few occasions in which a school or college will be able to agree to a change of pronouns. On these rare occasions, no teacher or pupil should be compelled to use these preferred pronouns and it should not prevent teachers from referring to children collectively as ‘girls’ or ‘boys,’ even in the presence of a child that has been allowed to change their pronouns".

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2023 11:06

Thank you @WarriorN for the link to the guidance.

After a first read, that is a lot better than I thought it might be. It's careful, nuanced and centres an awareness of children's developmental needs with safeguarding repeatedly cited. The government make clear that schools are expected to follow it (same with all non stat guidance - if a school ignores it they must have very good reasons why). It resets the balance by insisting that parents must be involved in all these decisions (unbelievable I even have to write that). I think it gives parents a lot more power to challenge out of control transactivism in a school.

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/supporting_documents/Gender%20Questioning%20Children%20%20nonstatutory%20guidance.pdf

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/supporting_documents/Gender%20Questioning%20Children%20%20nonstatutory%20guidance.pdf

GCTrumpets · 19/12/2023 11:04

What a fucking mess it all is. I work in mental health and the amount of young people I see who claims to be trans is truly alarming. And so many of them tell me stories about "passing" with what could almost be described as religious fervour?! They also vilify any teaching staff who mis pronoun them and use this as a reason to not attend school. I wouldnt be a teacher for a million quid.

AlisonDonut · 19/12/2023 11:00

This is all so fucking stupid.

CriticalCondition · 19/12/2023 10:56

Kevin Sexton didn't sound very bright to me. All the buzzwords, not much engagement of brain. No surprise the school is a Stonewall champion. His statement about teachers finding employment at another school If they don't use preferred pronouns was rather chilling. I wonder if the governors are aware of the Forstater judgment. Or how Stonewall's response to one of their own being sued is to say 'nothing to do with us mate'.

Swishyfishy · 19/12/2023 10:56

this is interesting ..

‘Some teachers have said they will not observe the new guidance, which is not statutory, because it could put children at risk. They claim families informed that their child has socially transitioned at school are removing and home-educating them because they believe their trans identity is down to social contagion.’

this is actually parents safeguarding their children from school and peer pressure at school. It’s extremely likely the parent was acting in the best interests of their child to protect them, given the brain washing in some schools.

The article goes on to tell a story of one suicidal child who was placed in another school. It infers the parents, lack of social screen time and change of school are at fault for mental health issues when the reality is that children claim to be trans on the back of existing mental health issues. Working with numerous trans teens my experience has made me aware of peer pressure, the autism and puberty link, the trauma and SA link, weak educational guidance, woke washed teachers in positions of power. It seems such a toxic mess for parents to help navigate.

WarriorN · 19/12/2023 10:48

Finally: Gender questioning children: draft schools and colleges guidance www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4966230-finally-gender-questioning-children-draft-schools-and-colleges-guidance

WarriorN · 19/12/2023 10:45

It's clear that children at primary school are not to be changing pronouns.

LizzieSiddal · 19/12/2023 10:43

On WH, Emma stated the school was a Stonewall champion, then asked if Stonewall had been involved in how they dealt with this, I noticed the Head said “No” then completely changed the subject! I suspect the “No” has to be a complete fabrication if the school is a Stonewall Champion.

WarriorN · 19/12/2023 10:33

ResisterRex · 19/12/2023 10:17

"Toilets designed by children."

"Going to the toilet is a v personal decision. "

Good god. Forget banning social media for under 18s, it's the adults whose brains have been addled.

He's not reading KCSIE very well as he should know that the school has a responsibility to keep children safe from sexual assault; single sex loos is a part of that

WarriorN · 19/12/2023 10:32

EnfysPreseli · 19/12/2023 10:31

Is an Executive Head a professional educator or a professional manager/administrator. I really felt he didn't actually understand children and young people in their wonderful diversity, complexity and, in many cases, irrationality.

He mentioned they'd had lots of cpd....

What's the cpd they've had is what I want to know.,

WarriorN · 19/12/2023 10:31

Emma has given good push back - not quite as far as "what if your teachers don't believe a child can change sex" - Will their views be protected?

EnfysPreseli · 19/12/2023 10:31

Is an Executive Head a professional educator or a professional manager/administrator. I really felt he didn't actually understand children and young people in their wonderful diversity, complexity and, in many cases, irrationality.

Flowers4me · 19/12/2023 10:29

So glad my daughter has left school now. She's autistic and went through a very difficult time as a teenager; she hated her changing body and wanted an escape from it. She has been explicit with me that she would have been tempted by gender ideology. She's now beyond school age and is happy; interestingly what helped was medical help from GP. But, bloody hell listening to this stuff on TV and radio this morning, I feel we've been lucky to escape this.

Biscofffan · 19/12/2023 10:28

The deputy head who spoke to Nicky Campbell was far more measured in his response than the head of the Chesterfield School and if I was one of his teachers who was not happy to use preferred pronouns I would be very concerned. The implication of his response to EB's question about this was that the teacher should go and work in a different school - their view would not be tolerated...he clearly hasn't heard about Forstater.

nauticant · 19/12/2023 10:19

Kevin Sexton, Chesterfield High School.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 19/12/2023 10:18

So many toilets that school has! Soooo many. Happy and safe spaces my backside…

Hope she clearly states the name of this school. Parents should spend the holidays writing to the governors. He sounds as if he has already made his mind up about the guidelines and he sounds as if he is purely focussed on ‘identity’.

ResisterRex · 19/12/2023 10:17

"Toilets designed by children."

"Going to the toilet is a v personal decision. "

Good god. Forget banning social media for under 18s, it's the adults whose brains have been addled.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 19/12/2023 10:15

I’m not liking this headteacher. I don’t feel that he is actually doing the best for the pupils here.

Celebrate? Respect? Inclusive? He has all the buzzwords. Wonder if it’s - BINGO - it’s a stonewall school.

there you have it. There it is.

ResisterRex · 19/12/2023 10:14

nauticant · 19/12/2023 10:12

He's saying that if the child makes a claim about what will happen at home, then the school has to believe the child. No other checks. There's the massive loophole built into the guidance.

He's getting this totally wrong. He would not be allowed to make this decision alone.

nauticant · 19/12/2023 10:12

He's saying that if the child makes a claim about what will happen at home, then the school has to believe the child. No other checks. There's the massive loophole built into the guidance.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 19/12/2023 10:10

This head on R4 - he is sailing close to the wind here. He won’t change ‘much at this point’. I would be getting my child out of this school and complaining loudly to the governors.

He doesn’t seem to actually understand children.

why can’t he say to these parents - ‘these are kids - we are seeing a trend/fashion for this. Consider the long term effects and if the child genuinely has GD then get them professionally diagnosed. Stop playing around’

nauticant · 19/12/2023 10:04

This is being covered on Woman's Hour and, fortunately, Emma Barnett is the presenter.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 19/12/2023 09:44

LondonLass91 · 19/12/2023 09:40

Yes, absolutely agree.

I worked in a school - kids taking prescribed medicine (even homeopathic or cough syrup) was a whole hoohah.

First aider trained teacher had to administer it - taken from the original packages (kept in a locked medicine cabinet - in a clear plastic bag with whole raft of forms). Had to be observed by a second member of staff. Forms filled out. Handed to parents at the end of the day with verbal confirmation of what/when taken.

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