Primary schools given advice on children who want to change gender (supposedly now agreed)

How do these Reddit teachers know so much about children who've left, that they know if their parents have stopped them going on social media? How do they know this?

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Wow. A children's sex change charity with paedophile / adult porn scandals involving trustees and staff is openly undermining proposed government guidance on mentally vulnerable children confused about their sex?

Why are they so determined that this cohort must be exempt from national safeguarding guidance?

There were a few changes to the document here and there in September.

The problem is that KCSIE had previously mentioned the key work "transphobia" - keeping children safe from bullying eg homophobia, transphobia etc (or something like that.)

I can't remember if that's still there this year or not.

some teachers could think that that is what they're doing by not informing parents.

As @Floisme pointed out, it's never up to individual teachers to make decisions about confidentiality. Safeguarding children takes precedence over trans demands and the school must work within the national safeguarding framework - Keeping safe in Education.

Those trying to persuade adults in schools they can individually make those decisions are professionally dangerous.

School Guidance out Tomorrow www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4965446-school-guidance-out-tomorrow

I hadn't seen this thread; the Reddit teacher comments are very concerning.

Unfortunately the guidance is as far as the gov can currently go.

My hope is that with a growing evidence base to refer to it can become statutory within KCSIE. It will take some time though.

The action against the dfe by some parents (10 I think) may help?

We’ve had plenty of threads here where children have been socially transitioned at school and parents not informed, even though there is no safeguarding protocol in place. I think we all recognise that, sometimes, sadly, children are at risk from their parents. That doesn’t make it a good starting assumption

Thank you @GrammarTeacher but I am aware of safeguarding issues and that schools must have processes in place for cases where this is considered a risk. But these appear to be teachers who have - reportedly - stated that they're not willing to inform parents in any circumstances, almost as if their starting point is an assumption that parents would always have malign intentions. It's a completely different scenario and I hope it's a case of lazy reporting because if not, that would be outrageous, no?

(For children generally, if my child were actively being indoctrinated and also wanting to transition I might withdrawal. And consider legal action)

Barry Wall's link to mermaid's awful shite:

x.com/dwindlinggravy/status/1736672695981412419?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Wouldn't be home schooling, and many can't. Parents need to be questioning and pushing back as much as they can.

Because sometimes for safeguarding reasons it isn't appropriate.

Someone withdrawing their child from school is not in itself a safeguarding risk. And if schools didn't transition children without parental consent, parents would not /be/ withdrawing them to prevent them being transitioned without consent.

We’re really up against some heavily invested TRAs and organisations

Poor children let down by adults on this. These bad laws and our inability to safeguard properly

All that is what I'd expect to happen in a well run school on a good day.

No fucking clue how it could pan out in others.

It's going to take time unfortunately for it to become good practice.

There's a lot of de programming to do.

Because sometimes for safeguarding reasons it isn't appropriate. Thankfully I'm not a DSL so don't have to make those decisions.
safeguarding in schools is full of decisions that in an ideal world we wouldn't need to make. The world is not ideal. And yes, these cases are referred on to relevant bodies outside of school!

Thanks @WarriorN

Hopefully outside providers will also start to make sure their resources comply with the guidance -stating that they do is a nudge game in the absence of hard law.

At the very least it does highlight the issues for schools and why and how there are different approaches taken.

It's now easier for providers and teachers who do know about the issues to say "I'm making a stand about this because this goes against this guidance."

It's not the best but I don't think many teachers had a clue there were opposed positions on this, OR we felt we had no ability to speak up against the perceived status quo peddled left right and centre by TRAs.

They're going to find it pretty difficult to ignore it because of Ofsted (hopefully) but also because of several law suits heading towards the dfe.

Schools and teachers would be putting themselves at risk of being sued or disciplinary action.

I would imagine and hope that we would start to see the reasoning behind it begin to filter into safeguarding training.

The ideal would be for it to be within KCSIE but I'm not sure how details legally make it into that.

KCSIE is law and is the safeguarding document, it's based on evidence.

It's possible there's not enough "hard evidence" yet, or law details, but the evidence collected on the website everyone's invited (detailing sexual assaults at school and on school premises) made it in pdq.

I don't disagree hag, but I think the way the law stands, gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, it has been established that children embarking on a pathway have it, and I think a case might be made for indirect discrimination if no reasonable adjustments are made.

More recently built or renovated schools may also have some single facilities available as a matter of course available to any child who feels the need, in which case no special privileges would be needed. Ours does this, except they also say they'll support 'trans' children to access opposite facilities if they want and if so the others can use the separate facilities if they aren't happy about it. In DS's year the 'transboys' have no desire to share with the boys, and DD's year the issue has not arisen yet. I suspect the reaction would depend who the boy is as well as who the girl is. Most of us wouldn't have had a problem changing with the nice gay lad, but if it was the creepy one who was known to try to spy on the girls' changing rooms, there would have been a stampede and a queue a mile long for the single cubicles.

I wonder if kids suffering gender dysphoria would generally rather use the separate facilities anyway, and wanting to be on the other sex's space may be more an adult activist thing.

If a child claims they feel unsafe in any toilet apart from one set aside only for them, that would not be tolerated - so there are limits. If a reasonable adjustment would be, eg, using staff toilets, this would seem to me to be preferential treatment, which is therefore encouraging a trans identity. These things need proper (probably ongoing) action, not a quick fix.

I agree with pp that if the problems are being created in the boys’ toilets then this needs addressing - boys without special identities deserve protection too

Am I right in thinking that. although non-statutory guidance isn't legally enforceable, it's still not a choice, that there is a presumption that schools will follow it and that Ofsted would take you to the cleaners if you didn't?

Mermaids have released a video on TikTok saying it's not law it's "just guidance" and teachers can call their helpline for advice with how to support children who "come out" to them.

Apart from them being an outside provider, there's a god complex there that's really quite concerning.

Quite. Yet ask them for another time/day on parents' evening because you genuinely can't make it, or try to access help for your SEN child and suddenly it's no, these are our rules. Or even if you buy the wrong kind of shoes. Are there rules and are they followed, or not?

Thanks for the share token.

Some teachers are vowing not to tell parents if their child is transgender because they say it could put pupils at risk of being withdrawn from school.
How fucking dare they?

How have we got to a point where (some) teachers think it's ok to openly declare they know what a child needs better than the parents?

Schools ‘do not have duty’ to let children change gender identity

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/789e1fd3-4a82-4b71-a0bf-e165b5f410b1?shareToken=a70bb1ef3bfe0282c7c2ab7b9de09be9