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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

No non-diverse hire at Aviva without it being signed off by the CEO

29 replies

ValerieVomit · 14/12/2023 11:38

The boss of Aviva has revealed senior white male recruits have to get a final sign-off from her and the chief people officer as part of the firm's drive to improve diversity. Amanda Blanc, who became the insurer's first female chief executive in 2020, said the policy formed part of its efforts to end sexism in the financial services industry. The 56-year-old told MPs on the Treasury select committee that 'there is no non-diverse hire at Aviva without it being signed off by me and the chief people officer'.

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2023/dec/13/aviva-has-acted-to-sack-male-employees-for-inappropriate-behaviour-says-boss-amanda-blanc-sexism-in-the-city-inquiry

What do you think?

Aviva has acted to sack male employees for inappropriate behaviour, says boss

Amanda Blanc also tells sexism in the City inquiry of ‘appalling’ accounts of harassment of women across financial services sector

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2023/dec/13/aviva-has-acted-to-sack-male-employees-for-inappropriate-behaviour-says-boss-amanda-blanc-sexism-in-the-city-inquiry

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TempestTost · 16/12/2023 23:33

The issue is that diversity can only apply to a group. It can’t be an individual attribute.

Exactly.

And all individuals are have protected characteristics, even if they are part of a majority, or indeed elite, group.

People in their minds need to imagine that this is the company's practice about any other group they choose. Let's say, people with mental health issues, or from impoverished backgrounds, whatever. Not because they would want to discriminate, but just to make sure that the process is being properly observed.

People would be suspicious immediately that this would result in some kind of individual level discrimination. Or the kind of inadvertent pressure it would create for those hiring to avoid triggering that kind of review, which would tend to result in discriminatory choices.

InefficientProcess · 15/12/2023 12:53

The issue is that diversity can only apply to a group. It can’t be an individual attribute.

You can’t be a ‘diverse’ person. The aims should be for a diverse mix of individuals within a group, reflecting population level norms.

NoCloudsAllowed · 15/12/2023 11:37

ValerieVomit · 15/12/2023 09:27

I struggle with the term diverse/diversity. Diverse as opposed to what, the norm or the average "Brit"?? There is no norm. I have spent years trying to convince my grandparents that being gay is perfectly NORMAL and they won't have it.

Well, take a look at the average board of directors and you'll see what is not diverse. Straight white men who went to a handful of schools and universities, capable and dedicated I'm sure but they'll have similar experiences and ways of thinking.

Diverse doesn't mean abnormal. It means a mix of viewpoints. It's proven to deliver better results.

It is hard to define though, eg does class background count, mental health conditions, what counts as a disability, does race count and at what point (eg two individuals with the same mixed heritage might have different relationships to their identity). Lots of people from ethnic minority backgrounds still have hugely privileged upbringings (rishi sunak springs to mind). And so on and so on.

But the initiative to want more than lip service to diversity is a good thing.

Of course, the more challenging side of diversity is ensuring a good pipeline of talent, which means better recruitment, company culture, family friendliness etc etc

ValerieVomit · 15/12/2023 09:27

TempestTost · 15/12/2023 00:57

This stuff is bad. People seem to be unable to grasp that there is no such thing as a "diverse" person. Or that choosing not to hire someone on the basis of race or sex isn't ok just because that person is not "diverse".

In many cases problems hiring people from different backgrounds start much further down the pipeline. Or are built into the nature of some positions. So you have to look at whether those positions really need to be like that or can be changed, and someone needs to see why the pipeline is delivering mainly a certain type of person.

I struggle with the term diverse/diversity. Diverse as opposed to what, the norm or the average "Brit"?? There is no norm. I have spent years trying to convince my grandparents that being gay is perfectly NORMAL and they won't have it.

OP posts:
Codlingmoths · 15/12/2023 02:09

fedupandstuck · 14/12/2023 11:44

Weird article where they don't actually address or even mention the comment in the headline.

I have found a quote (from the DM article on this) where it details what was said:

"Speaking at the Sexism in the City inquiry yesterday, she continued: 'Not because I don't trust my team but because I want to make sure that the process followed for that recruitment has been diverse, has been properly done and is not just a phone call to a mate to say, 'would you like a job, pop up and we'll fix it up for you'.'
Mrs Blanc's comments are understood to only relate to senior hires at the London-based firm which has 22,000 staff, reported the Daily Telegraph."

That all seems utterly reasonable to me.

Sounds ok to me.

TempestTost · 15/12/2023 00:57

This stuff is bad. People seem to be unable to grasp that there is no such thing as a "diverse" person. Or that choosing not to hire someone on the basis of race or sex isn't ok just because that person is not "diverse".

In many cases problems hiring people from different backgrounds start much further down the pipeline. Or are built into the nature of some positions. So you have to look at whether those positions really need to be like that or can be changed, and someone needs to see why the pipeline is delivering mainly a certain type of person.

Str8talkin · 14/12/2023 23:26

This reply has been deleted

This was started by a persistent troll.

pumpkintart · 14/12/2023 22:36

Company historically has been a real old boys clubs with hires made in the pub or on the golf course. She is bringing about well needed change within financial services to shine a light on bad hiring and HR practices.

nothingcomestonothing · 14/12/2023 22:26

Who counts as a 'diverse' hire though? Pip Bunce? Danielle Muscato? Melissa Poulton? Some might say that those individuals are members of an underrepresented minority, other that they are straight white males...

PegasusReturns · 14/12/2023 22:18

It's not the people that get vetted. It's the process

it’s not really clear what the CEO is doing. The article states:

“The boss of Aviva has revealed senior white male recruits have to get a final sign-off”

Which sounds very much like she’s vetting whether the “non-diverse hire” gets the job or not.

Somertime · 14/12/2023 19:39

My ex worked for them a few years ago and you definitely could get a job from a mate calling up. Or by shagging the manager. The whole place was like that. But that's probably why she was brought in and trying to make changes.

InefficientProcess · 14/12/2023 19:36

Which is to say, it’s really depressing because any ‘I need to approve any non-diverse hires’ policy is going to be utterly counterproductive.

Handing straight, white men anything that looks like an ‘oh look; I’m the victim of these dreadful diversity initiatives’ card is a bad idea.

InefficientProcess · 14/12/2023 19:13

I think that actually qualifies as sex discrimination under the EA. It would be better to just have her approve all hires of sufficient seniority.

LondonLass91 · 14/12/2023 14:32

ValerieVomit · 14/12/2023 11:57

You can't get a job by phoning a mate at a place like this anyway.

Exactly, what on earth is she talking about.

ZoeyBartlett · 14/12/2023 13:03

Odd. My CEO and CPO are women and would automatically see and agree senior hires.. would have thought same at L&G rather than saying it's a policy.

MoltenLasagne · 14/12/2023 12:50

As a woman who works in a predominantly male environment, I personally hate initiatives like these. They're divisive, cast suspicion on women who get promoted, and tend to result in people being parachuted in to meet targets, rather than internal promotion which creates bad feeling.

If the article is just about ensuring due process is followed, then the irresponsible headline is basically putting a target on the back of any non white male hired to a senior position. Slow handclap for them.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 14/12/2023 12:46

PegasusReturns · 14/12/2023 12:45

This is window dressing. The focus should be on ensuring diversity and lack of bias throughout the entire process.

I’d be interested to know how many people that reach the CEO’s door for vetting do not proceed?

Aviva have a significant “gender pay gap” made all the more extraordinary given their CEO, which always provides significant weighting in these exercises, is a woman.

It's not the people that get vetted. It's the process.

Fair point re: pay gap though.

PegasusReturns · 14/12/2023 12:45

This is window dressing. The focus should be on ensuring diversity and lack of bias throughout the entire process.

I’d be interested to know how many people that reach the CEO’s door for vetting do not proceed?

Aviva have a significant “gender pay gap” made all the more extraordinary given their CEO, which always provides significant weighting in these exercises, is a woman.

Tufft · 14/12/2023 12:44

I think this is ok as long as the process for all senior hires is scrutinised, not just non-diverse ones. It shouldn’t be assumed that someone with brown skin or female was hired, therefore everything is fine. As a side note, an individual cannot be diverse or non-diverse!

I’d like to see that the type of diversity she’s talking about includes social class, which is more important and more neglected than sex, race and even disability.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 14/12/2023 12:37

ValerieVomit · 14/12/2023 11:57

You can't get a job by phoning a mate at a place like this anyway.

Senior hires in big corporates are not normally recruited for by just putting an open advert out and hoping the right person sees it. Headhunters and recruiters are often used, who will make personal approaches to individuals.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 14/12/2023 12:34

fedupandstuck · 14/12/2023 11:44

Weird article where they don't actually address or even mention the comment in the headline.

I have found a quote (from the DM article on this) where it details what was said:

"Speaking at the Sexism in the City inquiry yesterday, she continued: 'Not because I don't trust my team but because I want to make sure that the process followed for that recruitment has been diverse, has been properly done and is not just a phone call to a mate to say, 'would you like a job, pop up and we'll fix it up for you'.'
Mrs Blanc's comments are understood to only relate to senior hires at the London-based firm which has 22,000 staff, reported the Daily Telegraph."

That all seems utterly reasonable to me.

Totally agree. Senior hires should be subject to scrutiny and follow proper process. And the process should be one that aims to reduce/eliminate discrimination and bias. Why would anyone object to that?

nfkl · 14/12/2023 12:32

I work in financial services,
Teams can be diverse, manager is always a white guy ...

Thanks to her for trying to change things for everyone rather than just looking after herself!

ActDottie · 14/12/2023 12:11

As someone who works in insurance I think this is a good thing because everyone who is in the leadership team is a man of about 50-60ish!

Im a female in a very male dominated environment and I find it difficult to think what my career path is when there aren’t any women in those higher up positions :(

NoCloudsAllowed · 14/12/2023 12:10

Sounds like a good incentive to tick the bisexual box on your application :)

fedupandstuck · 14/12/2023 12:09

Yes, sorry, mixed up the headings but the article is definitely not about the hiring screening idea.