Kemi Badenoch to face Women & Equalities Committee’s questions on equalities issues - 13 December 2023

The other thing that I hope is going to get some real clarity is this idea that you're 'outing' children and young people.

Either identifying as the opposite sex is because you have gender dysphoria and find your sexed body distressing, or it isn't. And if it isn't, what is it? A lifestyle choice?

How can Osborne genuinely believe that if a child has gender dysphoria, a psychological issue, their parents should be kept in the dark??

She doesn't. She's deliberately conflating gay civil rights, with gender dysphoria.

Of course, we see all the time, that vast swathes of people who say they are trans don't have gender dysphoria at all. From Malaga Man, to non-binary attention seekers.

and Kemi was quite clear that they were trying to define what transgender means. And that's why it's taking so long. I felt for her. It's a minefield.

Looking forward to hearing it though!

KB did not lose her temper, she was robust in defending her reputation.

KB has said some really helpful things:

• the law needs to separate sex and gender
• both the EA and GRA need reviewing
• the EA protected characteristics protect everyone - sex = men and women equally protected
• Need to look at the original purpose of the GRA and if it is still appropriate given same sex marriage is now legal
• those with a GRC need consideration
• parents love their children more than teachers do and safeguarding should protect the small minority at risk if they disclose a child’s disclosure they think they are trans.
• Separation between trans people and predators using existing legislation
• Waiting for the final Cass report.

I know there are very vocal people on both sides of the debate who will hate this position which probably means it’s right.

So, calculated and not losing her temper. On reflection, and rewatching, I think you're all right. Here's the Spectator's view, with video clip.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/watch-kemi-badenoch-blasts-labour-mp-in-gender-spat/

Hear hear

KB lost her temper which shows a slight lack of self control. Understandable, but I wish she hadn't.

Being accused by another MP of something you haven't done, designed to make you look bad, always gets a firm response — because MPs have to preserve their integrity, come what may. Kemi was very assertive because KO was lying. She will also have been aware that making an accusation of lying would draw attention to the slur. It was a clever manoeuvre: people are talking about it. She didn't lose her self-control: she was assertive. It's always the same, isn't it? A man gives an angry response and he's strong and assertive. A woman is assertive in the face of a slur and someone'll comment on her lack of self-control.

See also MP Tonia Antoniazzi's very strong response to Dawn Bowden (MS in the Welsh government) saying that Tonia hadn't given her specifics about the Welsh Rugby Football Union. Tonia had evidence that she had and said so very firmly. In that case Bowden referred herself for investigation, knowing she'd lied. It would be good if Kate Osborne would do the same. In fact if I was Keir Starmer I'd be asking for it to be investigated and putting some distance between me and KO. The voters of Jarrow know what a woman is.

That's a good article. Bit rushed, and I'd love to see a creative journalist handle it. There's so much fodder, it could be glorious.

The implication that (HSTS) transwomen were using women's bathrooms before and no one minded, is quite a common attitude. And certainly, there wasn't this wholesale destruction of women's rights as a result of it.

And she might well be classing predation as a man, any man, entering a woman's space when they don't want him to. I certainly do.

But at the end of the day, if you're going to exclude Alf who gets his cock out and uploads it to some fetish site, you're going to have to exclude them all.

And, given she's a politician, she will be thinking how can she get most people on board.

I find Kemi Badenoch quite scary — because if she keeps up like this, and if she is as clear-thinking and evidence-based in other areas of policy, she may make a Tory of me yet. I'm a depressed and end-of-my-tether Labour voter (and party member) who has just written to her thanking her for all she's doing on this front.

I feel mortified for and furious with Kate Osborne, who's exposed her lack of intelligence and rigour for the world to see. She thought righteous indignation would be enough and didn't do her homework. What a fool she's made of herself.

I don't think Kemi lost her temper at all. Furious and outraged, yes. But she didn't drop a stitch.

It was Caroline Noakes who, after Osborne's mendacious performance, tried to tried to six of one, half a dozen of the other at Kemi..

Her next mistake was trying to imply that Kemi's position could not be considered authoritative without more data. Because collecting data is frowned on by tranactivists. That's the green light to all of it. More data, surveys, statistics. Let's have at it.

And in terms of the purity about there are more predators than trans people, yes, I'm sure we all disagree over that line of argument, but she's writing policy. She almost doesn't need to get involved in no men, ever, whatever they say, they're all men. She just writes the policy that excludes them all anyway.

I'm so glad it's busted this wide open. Brilliant stuff.

Kemi is absolutely wonderful. What a fantastic speaker and role model. I wish she were my MP!

Clear speech, no bullshit, just plain truth. She's a legend.

I have only seen the clip of this interaction when they are talking about 'disease'.

KB is an absolute mind bender for these people - a black woman uninterested in identity politics/victim mentality and not automatically 'on the left'

Bravo to her!

KO still thinks she is the rational and good person, even after that interaction. It really is a parasitic ideology that takes hold of all your senses.

i think it's a bloody brilliant way of putting it. Because NOBODY can say "see SEE THEY DON'T CARE about the poor transes, precious, they hates them all"

This argument is the same as the TRAs - yes Trans people have been using the facilities of their acquired gender for ages. Now it is a problem because the nu-Trans are piggybacking in on their "rights" (or that we have put up with it) and trampling them into the ground. And so with one fell swoop it requires the TRAs to say "but but but they're not real trans" which they can't/won't (with a few notable exceptions)

The TWAW side of the argument speakers were spectacularly awful again which just makes KB sound even more sane and reasonable. I like that they can't see that their you said X but we understand that as you saying Y isn't working anymore.

Exactly the type of person Kemi was talking about.

https://x.com/peter_daly/status/1735221698352550034?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

I interpreted this as her taking an angle that would make it more difficult for anyone opposing her to disagree with, whilst saying something that is true (there are more predatory men than men who identify as women) and that gets the wanted result (ALL men stay out!)

I loved that KB looked directly at Nokes and said "we have to do better". Caroline Nokes is so utterly lame.

Yes, that's the one failing in her argument.

Thanks @ResisterRex

I like how direct and clear she is, it’s refreshing to see someone talking who doesn’t use appeals to emotion, straw men, all the debate fallacies really. Our public debate is just shit really, generally seems to involve much weeping, rending of clothes and gnashing of teeth. 🙄

I'm sure these meetings have taken a week or so in the past. Process seems to be different for some reason

Can anyone confirm if this is on Hansard, I can't find it.

I can't say I'm a massive fan of KJK although i do agree with some of what she says/does.
But she's tweeting that KB is still wrong? Does she want to make progress or does she just want to shout "no" at everyone who doesn't believe 100% what she believes?

I don't think Kemi lost her temper. I also don't think she called KO a liar. She said "that is a lie". Not the same thing. Not that this mattered to KO and Nokes who leapt on the chance to do battle for Head Girl job at that point.

Pointing Kemi to a dictionary was extremely rude, and that's without KO's use of the term as well as the use of it as a metaphor:

x.com/jebadoo2/status/1735028851321848114?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Kemi was right. It was a lie. As such, it should be withdrawn.

Regarding schools-surely the starting point must be that there are no transexual children, simply boys and girls, a tiny proportion of whom will feel uncomfortable in their changing body. Puberty is part of maturing and must not be meddled with.

I see Kate Osborne MP as the perfect poster-person for The Right Side of History.

Somebody who lies, and lies, and lies. When called out, cowardly runs away to other spaces. And lies, and lies, and lies some more. And repeat.

And still is utterly certain that She is Righteous and Good and therefore all her lies are justified, because anything that Good People do is by definition Good.

Yet another Pious Fraud.

That is a share token, @HagoftheNorth - is it not working for you?

You can also copy and paste the URL into archive dot ph. And/or try flight mode.