Why can’t people accept that some transwomen are just conmen? Telegraph article

Genuine trans or fake trans. What's the difference?

I don't think anyone's ever explained this. All trans people are pretending to be something they're not.

So are the genuine ones the ones who are genuinely pretending while the fake ones are pretending to pretend? And why does it matter whether they are genuinely pretending or only pretending to pretend? Doesn't that just make them all fake?

Discussion about this topic on GB News (the title is misleading, no-one comes to blows). Panellist Paola Diana takes no nonsense though:

I honestly don’t where Tatchell purports to get his information from on these subjects but he’s wrong in a number of the statements he made (i .e. he doesn’t seem to know Jamie Wallis MP exists, he thinks hormone therapy doesn’t happen for teenagers and if it does happen it’s reversible 🤷‍♀️🙄). I think his argument that Poulton is trying to improve women’s representation in politics is the most delusional and disingenuous thing I’ve ever heard him say.

Completely agree and I don't know how any slt can think they are a good idea to run. Not that they do talk about sex, ours has died out for now it seems but they mostly talked about famous gay or maybe gay people.

It's professional boundaries isn't it? Most teachers understand them but there's always some who don't. In some schools there's often a small group of younger activist teachers involved with SLT behaving as our politicians have done until recently - a mix of clueless and scared of being called bigots.

What does worry me are the teachers involved in LGBT etc groups. What are they thinking? The school's role is not to actively involve children in LGBT groups any more than it is to run groups to discuss heterosexuality!
From what I've seen the groups lack a structure, curriculum, are usually mixed age with older students sometimes running sessions and frankly are opening up both teachers and older students to potential charges of grooming.

Also more generally teachers are really not influencing children into this, its social media and schools being scared / being kind. These extreme close relationships don't really happen, there are boundaries and the vast majority of teachers don't try to do anything but teach and look out for their students. They report whenever they are upset etc. They care about their work and a bit about them. But we have hundreds of new kids each year, we really are not counsellors.

Yes yes but no teacher is going to start challenging a child after slt have changed the name on the register. It would be inappropriate to just start having that conversation. Any teachers who ever encouraged a kid to transition should be sacked, there is no time when these conversations are had. But referrals are made and counsellors/ parents affirm, the school does what they are told. They are not in the business of challenging identity. The most we do is enforcement of uniform which is basically gender neutral. Noone is telling a boy off for wearing a skirt in sixth form, how would you do that? U less it was overly sexual in which case same as we do the girls. And tbh that would have to be stockings or something. I teach. I do pastoral care. But I'm not into brainwashing or telling them what to think. I even teach all the strands of feminism. But much like I can't go around saying I'm a tory voter or Labour voter I also can't go around saying twaw or nw. I tend to agree many people believe they are not and be kind. Not much further I can go. Even talking about detrans in pshe causes a huge stir from believers, allies and parents.

But allowing them to be at the centre of a maelstrom of differing adult views isn't the way to do it imho.

Being at the centre of a maelstrom of differing adult views is partly what will have led them into this ideology in the first place.

More confusion is not helpful. Though perhaps even one steady, calm, rational adult in their life would be helpful within this maelstrom.

Are "genuine trans people" men who pretend to be women, but for a good reason?

Sorry- I can't think of a good reason.

If you're working in a school (which is the post I was referring to) then there may well be over a hundred adults working there. You can't have each adult "challenging" a child from their own perspective.
Unthinkingly socially transitioning children in schools is wrong - it shouldn't be happening and we must find better ways to support mentally vulnerable children than immediate affirmation. Yes schools must reinforce single sex changing rooms, sports, safeguarding etc and that's going to be difficult enough given the lies they've been told by transactivists.
But allowing them to be at the centre of a maelstrom of differing adult views isn't the way to do it imho.

it's not up to individual adults to start challenging individual children about this

Why not? And what do you consider a 'challenge'?

The individual adults can refuse to pander to the individual child's demands, they can refuse to pretend that the child has charged sex, or has no sex. They can refuse access to opposite sex facilities where they are segregated for good reason. Are these the sort of 'challenge' you refer to?

"women are simply “support humans” for delusional males."

Quite. What bothers me is the insistence that everyone else stop what they're doing and give these people their full attention/ whatever they may be demanding that particular day.

I don't need to be validated as a woman, I just am one and have every right to an autonomous existence the same as every man even if he fancies presenting himself as a woman. And it's all about the presenting - trans wouldn't exist in a vacuum. It has to have others to validate it, admire it and to feed off. It's just inequality all over again - believing women only exist to serve men, or serve a purpose for them and therefore are lesser.

I particularly enjoyed the paper crown analogy.

Spot on.

But it's not up to individual adults to start challenging individual children about this

Do include not challenging boys undressing in the girl’s changing room? What about children bullying other children for not using a child’s opposite sex pronouns?

the unconditional approval / respect / interest that you offer to children you teach

I can't think of a single teacher I've known (including - perhaps especially - those I most liked and respected) who unconditionally respected and approved of their pupils. I wouldn't have trusted any who did, and would have taken it as an indication of very poor judgement.

I don't think that's what Boomboom meant? I think she was speaking about the unconditional approval / respect / interest that you offer to children you teach. A respectful warmth and acceptance that you hope means they'll trust you, know you'll listen to them and allows them to take your feedback / criticism in the manner in which it's given. It's what good teachers do.

Dealing with them when they're so vulnerable & mentally fragile, pretending they're the opposite sex is a complete mindfuck for all concerned. But it's not up to individual adults to start challenging individual children about this which is why it's so difficult to manage in schools.

Why should they believe you love them unconditionally? You are not their parent. And it is not love to lie to them that they can change sex, support a delusion, or encourage them (via the powerful psychological intervention that is social transition) down the path to be a lifelong medical patient. Nor is it loving to your other students to gaslight them.

in other words while no one has the mysterious power to spot a "true transwoman" whatever that might be, we've all got the power to tell an HSTS from an AGP. The battle's won if the general public can allow themselves to make that distinction, and it doesn't really matter what name people give it.

I quite like this "conmen" vs true trans distinction, because autogynephilia is hard to spell and even harder to believe.

Totally agree. My problem as a teacher is once the school agree there is no way I can deadname or challenge in any way and I wouldn't want to either, these are kids. 16yr old boys and girls but kids. And I have to teach them so they must believe I love them unconditionally and am happy with them, which again I'll always do no matter how much of a shit they might be.

I think she's being clever. "True trans" is obvious bollocks and I don't know if she really believes it but it's a way of putting "two types" into people's heads.

If people start allowing themselves to acknowledge some "conmen" TW exist, they'll quickly start noticing that they're a majority. AGPs set off deceptiveness alarms for very good reasons, but we get socialised to suppress that.

I suspect that a 'genuine' transwman is one with the sort of gender dysphoria that resembles the body dysphoria suffered by people with anorexia. Not a discomfort or a wish to be different, but an unshakeable belief that they ARE different. A state of mind comparable to that of the severely underweight person who looks in the mirror and sees an obese person, or the stroke survivor who cannot understand why there is a leg in the bed with them and tries to throw it out but to their horror it is attached to them.

We do not offer bariatric surgery to anorexia sufferers...

If we could get into their head what could be proven? That they genuinely believe that they have a cross sex gendered soul or that they really were born in the wrong body? That sex is genuinely unimportant and that one's internal sense of gender is very important?

All we can possibly conclude is that they are "genuine" in the delusion or the amount they have bought into a belief system there is still nothing genuine about their cross sex claims.

Yes, there still remains this protected idea that are 'genuine' trans people. But who is to know or question when the 'reality' is situated entirely in the person's head.