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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It's started in Irish dancing too. 14 year old trans child wins world qualifying event

163 replies

Greyheart1 · 11/12/2023 23:32

https://tennesseestar.com/news/parents-outraged-after-trans-identifying-boy-wins-girls-irish-dancing-competition-heads-to-worlds/admin/2023/12/10/

This means that the girl outside the qualifying spots in the U14 competition has missed out on her chance to dance at the world championships next year.
Devestating. It is an extremely expensive sport.

Parents Outraged After Trans-Identifying Boy Wins Girls' Irish Dancing Competition, Heads to Worlds - Tennessee Star

A teenage boy who identifies as a girl is heading to the Irish Dancing World Championships after placing first in the U14 2023 Southern Region Oireachtas competitions.

https://tennesseestar.com/news/parents-outraged-after-trans-identifying-boy-wins-girls-irish-dancing-competition-heads-to-worlds/admin/2023/12/10

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Greyheart1 · 12/12/2023 19:23

@Froodwithatowel & the girls have lost out. The girl in 6th lost out on her podium position, should have been 5th & another girl lost on on a spot to go to Scotland for the World championships. So two girls denied their rightly spots due to a boy in their girls competition.

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Froodwithatowel · 12/12/2023 19:16

Always the same thing.

One side: this is unfair, all girls are suffering because of this, there's a reason girls need their own category, and girls are losing opportunities and places in the girls' competitions in order to let boys have freedom of self expression and use their resources

Other side: ah bless, poor boy, give him what he wants, it's nice to be nice, don't make him sad.

Basically a belief that girls should suffer and lose so that boys never have to deal with boundaries that make them sad.

ElaineMBenes · 12/12/2023 19:16

@Greyheart1 I agree.
Clrg aren't fit for purpose and haven't been for decades.

I've stepped away from teaching and have refused to register with them this year. I refuse to subject my kids to their antics any longer.

Greyheart1 · 12/12/2023 19:06

ElaineMBenes · 12/12/2023 17:46

As someone who has been involved in Irish dancing my entire life as a dancer and now a teacher I find this frustrating and confusing.

Firstly, boys and girls have very different styles. when judging you look for different things. I'd be interested in how they were judged and whether they were judged as a girl or a boy?
Secondly, traditionally it's always been much easier to qualify for the worlds as a boy due to the significantly lower numbers. In my region I think every boy qualifies as the numbers in the groups are so low whereas the girls groups are more competitive.

Although clrg are an absolute shit show so nothing surprises me!

@ElaineMBenes it's a sham. I think that a trans section needs to created & demanded by parents, teachers & dancers to protect & keep world qualifying spots for dancers who are dancing in their birth gender catagory.

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ElaineMBenes · 12/12/2023 18:02

EtiennePalmiere · 12/12/2023 17:56

As an aside do they go on their toes like ballet dancers (per the photo) ? If so that's a massive risk for a male body.

Girls do in their heavy shoes - they're known as blocks. They're allowed to dance this step aged 12 upwards.
It's not a step danced by boys.

EtiennePalmiere · 12/12/2023 17:56

As an aside do they go on their toes like ballet dancers (per the photo) ? If so that's a massive risk for a male body.

Ramblingnamechanger · 12/12/2023 17:51

No such thing as a trans child

ChateauDuMont · 12/12/2023 17:50

nocoolnamesleft · 11/12/2023 23:40

I would absolutely believe that the increased leg strength from a male puberty would be a significant and unfair advantage. The individual competed within the rules. Those who made those rules are to blame for this travesty.

There is also the mental edge of the girls taking part feeling nervous/anxious/confused and possibly angry at being told to accept the boy.

ElaineMBenes · 12/12/2023 17:46

As someone who has been involved in Irish dancing my entire life as a dancer and now a teacher I find this frustrating and confusing.

Firstly, boys and girls have very different styles. when judging you look for different things. I'd be interested in how they were judged and whether they were judged as a girl or a boy?
Secondly, traditionally it's always been much easier to qualify for the worlds as a boy due to the significantly lower numbers. In my region I think every boy qualifies as the numbers in the groups are so low whereas the girls groups are more competitive.

Although clrg are an absolute shit show so nothing surprises me!

Abhannmor · 12/12/2023 17:29

Irish Central is a US based site and FB page. I deleted it ages ago. Full of shamrockery and misinformation.

UtopiaPlanitia · 12/12/2023 16:30

Greyheart1 · 12/12/2023 16:26

https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/trans-irish-dance-petition

Irish Central have now published an article seeking support for trans dancers...
I can't stop thinking about the poor girl who has missed out on her chance to go to the world championships..

Well, Irish Central very definitely has a particular view on this issue and it’s not supporting fair competition for the girls (their rights barely get a mention) 🤯🤬

Greyheart1 · 12/12/2023 16:26

https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/trans-irish-dance-petition

Irish Central have now published an article seeking support for trans dancers...
I can't stop thinking about the poor girl who has missed out on her chance to go to the world championships..

Trans Irish dancers and allies seek CLRG's support in open letter amid backlash

The "Support Transgender Irish Dancers" petition was launched as a trans teen is subjected to backlash for winning her Oireachtas this month.

https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/trans-irish-dance-petition

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UtopiaPlanitia · 12/12/2023 14:50

MarieDeGournay · 12/12/2023 13:14

On the subject of Irish dance itself - it's not all wigs and fake tan, that's just a highly stylised version of it. And now you mention it, yes it very drag-ish! Ordinary people wearing ordinary clothes also do extraordinary Irish dancing:

On the main topic - I'm in total agreement of course, boys should not compete in girls' competitions, in this or any other arena.

Sean Nós dance is the style I grew up with - occasionally you'd get some girls at school who entered competitions and they wore the old style flowing dance dresses with Celtic patterns on them (no wigs, no cosmetics). Those girls put in so much effort and practice, so much leg strength and stamina is needed for the leaps and for the steps. I was always impressed at how strong they were but competing against male dancers isn’t a level playing field. Irish dance made them good Camogie players too: strong legs and stamina 😊

MarieDeGournay · 12/12/2023 13:14

On the subject of Irish dance itself - it's not all wigs and fake tan, that's just a highly stylised version of it. And now you mention it, yes it very drag-ish! Ordinary people wearing ordinary clothes also do extraordinary Irish dancing:

On the main topic - I'm in total agreement of course, boys should not compete in girls' competitions, in this or any other arena.

Sean Nós Dancing & Irish Dancing

Eimear Mulvey (Sean Nós Dancer) & Irish Dancer (Conor Walsh) performing in the Coleman Centre Gurteen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LunM7ESnRKQ

UtterlyUnimaginativeUsername · 12/12/2023 12:44

Villagetoraiseachild · 12/12/2023 07:42

Jesus Mary and Joseph, is nothing sacred?

Ah, sure, lookit. Isn't that it?

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 12/12/2023 12:08

Villagetoraiseachild · 12/12/2023 07:42

Jesus Mary and Joseph, is nothing sacred?

Yes of course, but only certain people...

Greyheart1 · 12/12/2023 12:04

@NitroNine agsin great points. That is absolutely correct there are at least four other organisations that dancers can easily move to although they would need to research the policies carefully.
That's very progressive of wida to have a trans catagory.

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Greyheart1 · 12/12/2023 12:02

@EasternStandard I'm the same. Women's sports for women only. The push back needs to start in clrg.
1.They have options, change the rules to ensure girls & boys competitions are protected & all entrants dance in their birth gender.

  1. Create a third section to accommodate trans kids
  2. Make the competitions mixed accross the board.

Option 1 & 2 are the fairest to all.

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EasternStandard · 12/12/2023 11:58

Boomboom22 · 12/12/2023 11:31

But if it doesn't matter how did he go from 11th boy not even top 10 to 1st girl? Clearly he either has an advantage or the judges favoured him because he is trans?

It might be both idk

There seems to a flurry of firsts for males in whatever the sport

I don’t agree with any males in female sports

PurpleChrayne · 12/12/2023 11:58

I follow the dance school's Instagram (a relative does Irish dancing) and it's extremely obvious who this boy is.

NitroNine · 12/12/2023 11:57

@Greyheart1
I’d be happy (with no dogs in the fight, as it were) to see it - much prefer their rules; & not having a sex scandal is always a bonus 😁
Members leaving might be what does it - having that freedom to choose is where Irish Dancers are ahead of lots of other athletes.

Oh & a trans category wouldn’t make them happy: they want to be “validated” by getting to dance with the girls. In a trans category they’d be back dancing against boys & they might not win, having lost their unfair advantage.

I didn’t realise they’d not even had to learn anything new - that really does make it so much worse!

Greyheart1 · 12/12/2023 11:53

@NitroNine everything you are saying is completely correct. The dances are less than two minutes so stamina & power are what's going to be needed most. The only thing this child needed to learn was a slip jig which won't be needed until next summer. The other dances are the same as the girls.

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Greyheart1 · 12/12/2023 11:50

@NitroNine@NitroNine if there continues there could well be a mass exodus to wida.
I can't understand why clrg can't create a trans catagory, that would keep everyone happy!

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NitroNine · 12/12/2023 11:44

Slightly off-topic, but for all the people convinced Irish Dancing = Satan’s Own Fake Tan Mitt, lots of people compete under WIDA so no make-up (inc fake-tan) for U12’s & no wigs (then only a bun wig until you’re 15) & once you’re allowed a dress it’s to be of a more traditional style. WIDA have had a “trans non-binary” adult compete - but pretty clearly in the correct sex category. I can’t find anything saying people are allowed to dance according to their genderfeels either 🤔

Returning to our sheep: really fecking hope CLRG & various affiliated organisations turn the ship around & sail back into the waters of sanity. The extra strength, stamina & power boys [& men] have is an advantage, especially in hard shoe dances. Males have more fast twitch muscles which are basically exactly what they need for the small fast steps: it’s the same reason men find petit allegro so easy in ballet & even [relative] beginners can knock out entrechats & sometimes royales with ease.

Greyheart1 · 12/12/2023 11:42

@Boomboom22 that is another very important factor. It is a judged sport.
Clrg is facing huge law suits at the moment due to last year's judging scandal so all eyes are on the judges at the moment. The organisation has a lot of issues that runs deep to the core.

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