It's started in Irish dancing too. 14 year old trans child wins world qualifying event

There are a couple of things that bother me about the idea that it is more fair to include transgender people into competitions in the category of the gender as which they wish to live. The first is that although it now seems to be normal for transwomen or transgirls to win in the girls' and women's categories, I haven't seen any instances of transboys or transmen winning in the boys' and men's categories. Is this a difference in publicization of victories by transmen vs transwomen? Or does this reflect that transboys and transmen are unable to compete successfully with boys and men?

Along the same lines, it bothers me that it seems to be that transgirls and transwomen move up in the rankings when they move to compete as the gender as which they wish to live. This would suggest that they gain an advantage by transitioning. If transitioning was truly neutral according to their sports competitiveness and their overall sporting achievement, then I would expect them to retain the same gender-based ranking when they switch the gender in which they compete. For example a cyclist who is ranked 589th among men, when competing as a man, should remain at the 589th rank among women, when competing as a woman, because, if their transition truly does change their sporting ability proportionately, then so should their ranking change proportionately. When someone moves from a 200th ranking to 3rd place ranking, or from 79th place ranking to 1st place ranking, that seems like pretty clear evidence that, even if their performance may decrease a little bit as a result of the hormonal changes of transition, they still retain a competitive advantage due to their underlying sex.

I hope that was clear. I was trying to stay within site rules.

Yes I couldn't find any evidence for the claim on this thread that it is inherently more dangerous for men to be en pointe. So that's one less thing for people to worry about phew!

Men can and do go on pointe. See 'Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo' for instance.

There's no reason why they can't and since ballet shoes are still handmade, they can be idividually customised to fit each person's feet. They rarely do though, since in most ballets, soldiers, pirates, farm hands, assorted villains and princes tend to be wearing boots rather than tutus and tiaras. You do get the occasional role which requires it, such as Bottom in The Dream, but not often.

Male dancers do damage theselves in the pursuit of dance, I know two who are currently out of action with a shoulder injury (from lugging ballerinas about on their shoulders no doubt).

Excellent article - all the information you’ve found and posted here is fascinating. It’s always interesting (occasionally depressing too 🤷‍♀️) to see the various viewpoints on an issue. Go raibh maith agat!!

Watching Osbourne in the Women & Equalities Committee yesterday was quite the shock. Her questions were really just long, rambling, biased monologues. She had no interest in interrogating issues from other perspectives. It was like watching an anthropomorphised Pink News article.

It's getting quite starkly obvious now, along with Kate Osborne and posters here. Alternative realities where they endlessly battle with imaginary straw men, and where facts are evil things to hide from at all costs.

Pink News exists in its own reality where them being expected to carry out factchecking on news stories is considered oppressive 🙄

@Greyheart1 I’ve no idea, but women’s skeletal structure is so influenced by hormones that it’s quite possible that they will be more prone to injury at certain points in their cycle or their life (for instance, pregnancy can have a huge effect on your feet - many women’s feet change size and shape at this time; menopause is another for obvious reasons).

Here’s another article that says men trying en pointe will find new muscles and develop more flexibility in feet and ankles.

I did think it interesting that both this article and the previous one I posted highlights that it gives male dancers and choreographers more insight into how female dancers have to move and what is possible.

https://dancespirit.com/men-on-pointe/

Interesting article about male ballet dancers - one pointed out that dancing en pointe helps strengthen his feet, another that all his weight on the tips of his size 12 feet is painful.

https://amp.theguardian.com/stage/2021/mar/10/men-en-pointe-ballet-dancers-kick-down-gender-stereotypes

I can see any evidence that the wider, stronger feet of men are more at risk from injury than the smaller less dense bones of women affected by monthly fluctuations in relaxin and progesterone that inpact the ligaments and increase the risk of joint injury. If anything... they are less prone to injury based on comparisons in ballet.

Just wanted to come back and say thank you for all the links and information on this thread

I'm afraid that Drag like wigs, make up and false tan (on children), together with dresses that cost a bomb are hardly representative of Irish culture. That's what annoys me greatly today. As I said I have no doubt that the organisers are in cahoots and have mutually lucrative contracts for the exclusive supply of these outfits and embellishments.

I never had anything like that, a home embroidered dress and natural ringlets on my own hair for sure, but it was a simpler time. My dance lessons were in a freezing cold tiny Conradh na Gaeilge hall across the road from my national school. The thread is bringing back memories!

Imagine raising your son to be a cheat, as well as letting (enouraging) him to believe he has been born into the wrong body. The male entitlement in that family must be off the charts..!

Maybe it depended on where you lived @lesdeluges? I never got a nationalistic vibe off it, any more than I did about learning Irish at school or playing the tin whistle. I just saw it as our Irish culture?

I agree with pp that the change in Irish dancing with regard to dresses and wigs is very sad.

I hope those affected succeed in challenging trans boys in girls Irish dance.

I also firmly believe that the wigs, dresses, make up etc. are a commercially lucrative tie in with the suppliers. All sewn up as it were.

The CLRG appears to be bent as a rake also. Rotten organisation that would insist on this ridiculously expensive garb, and who "fix" competitions.

I really don't know how any parent could allow their child to participate in such a disgraceful set up.

Irish here, did the Irish dancing when a kid (hundreds of years ago). Never liked the Irish Nationalistic Gaeilge filled ethos, and the self importance of the judges. I recognised this even though I was young. Just something about it all turned me right off.