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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Female to male transition.

59 replies

CurlewKate · 05/12/2023 11:19

Is there any research-or even discussion about the rate and outcome of female to male transition? Any high profile cases? I know about Elliot Page of course. And Buck Angel. But any business people? Anyone in the army? Anyone on TV that I may not have spotted?

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EtiennePalmiere · 06/12/2023 21:43

There was a Netflix documentary about a skateboarder named Leo something, it was quite boring so I didn't finish it. Apparently sponsorships dried up when he transitioned.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 06/12/2023 18:01

SapphosRock · 06/12/2023 15:42

There definitely seems to be social contagion in Brighton.

If there are far fewer transboys in Brighton compared to transgirls, is that because Brighton might be one of the few places in the UK where there are visible role models for girls just starting to feel they might be lesbians? Obviously there must be any number of role models for young gay boys there as well, though, so maybe that theory falls down.

MrsTwatInAHat · 06/12/2023 17:38

I can't understand how anyone with two brain cells can deny the social contagion that's obviously such a huge part of the rise in numbers among girls. I and every other parent of a DD I've talked to about it has experienced their DD going through a phase of everyone in the friendship group having to identify as LGBTQI++ or else you're not cool. Usually aged 10-12 and usually they then move on from it. But if it's affirmed by adults, and the girl is encouraged to see it as a real solution to normal adolescent woes, or is drawn in by the praise and adulation (especially if she previously felt left out, unattractive etc - or didn't fit in like many girls with autism) then she's going to end up keeping on down that pathway.

My DD's friends all bought the right flags and badges for their "queer" identities. My DD told me she'd "chosen" bi, and I could see why - she didn't have to prove anything or do anything and it was easiest. This is a group of about 10 girls with generally mainstream interests and styles, not even tomboys. Over 90% of them will be straight statistically. I asked if anyone had "chosen" straight and she said no of course not, you can't be straight.

I am bloody relieved I kept my cool and just went "hmm-hmmm" and she grew out of it, they all did. One persisted with being a trans boy for a while longer but it was so clear she had no interest in being a boy. She was just miserable about her parents' divorce and needed support and something to make herself feel more important and listened to, or a way to escape from herself. She never wanted to be in the boy's toilets, with the boys on a school trip or anything.

Obviously I have no issue with my DD being bi or gay or whatever, if she actually is, when she's of an age for it to be relevant. But them all deciding they were LGBTQ at 10 is CLEARLY social contagion, mindlessly encouraged by school.

SapphosRock · 06/12/2023 15:42

Mayhemmumma · 05/12/2023 18:36

I have been surprised working in a (Brighton) college how many students are female to male transgender in comparison to male to female - far fewer.

There definitely seems to be social contagion in Brighton.

WarriorN · 06/12/2023 09:39

Looking forward to next year's winner waving an adult human female banner ...

AsexualHealing · 06/12/2023 09:29

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 06/12/2023 09:05

I heard Jesse Darling being interviewed on Today earlier. The Palestinian flag incident was not mentioned, and I'm sorry to hear it. I thought Darling came across well otherwise. Modern art is not my bag, so I know nothing about the artistic merits or otherwise of Darling's work. It was refreshing, though, to hear a transman being interviewed without a single reference to gender identity - Nick Robinson's focus was entirely on the work and on Darling's decision to live in Berlin rather than the UK.

Yes it was the same on R4’s Front Row. I’ll admit my ears pricked up when I heard them speaking, but it’s only since seeing this thread that it’s confirmed they’re trans.

Rightsraptor · 06/12/2023 09:17

Going back to Chaz Bono: if you don't know, Chastity Bono is the born-daughter of Cher & Sonny Bono, announced she was a lesbian which Cher (reportedly) refused to accept, they were NC for some time, then Chaz emerged - a transman.

Obviously a lot of family stuff going on there.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 06/12/2023 09:05

I heard Jesse Darling being interviewed on Today earlier. The Palestinian flag incident was not mentioned, and I'm sorry to hear it. I thought Darling came across well otherwise. Modern art is not my bag, so I know nothing about the artistic merits or otherwise of Darling's work. It was refreshing, though, to hear a transman being interviewed without a single reference to gender identity - Nick Robinson's focus was entirely on the work and on Darling's decision to live in Berlin rather than the UK.

LadyBevvy · 06/12/2023 08:56

Not much since the attempt to cancel Lisa Littman unfortunately. But there is some evidence that suggests the following:

  • FtM transition desire has high correlation with autism, child sexual abuse, and/or social contagion
  • Phalloplasty has a 70% complication rate necesseitating at least 2 corrective surgeries. It also appears to have severe urological long term adverse effects but it'll take a few years for these to really be understood because the surgery is so new
  • Desistance/regret seems to be quite high

Sources for these on KiwiFarms, SRS thread - sourced to (very limited) academic studies and anecdotal evidence from clinicians

WarriorN · 06/12/2023 08:21

Turner Prize: Jesse Darling wins for 'delirious' art using tattered flags and barbed wire https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67627980

All the four nominated artists were reflecting what's happening in Britain right now. In the end, Darling was felt by the judges to be a cut above.

WarriorN · 06/12/2023 08:17

Hmm

Cue a tonne of Darling inspired art projects coming to a school near you.

Female to male transition.
HipTightOnions · 06/12/2023 08:10

Jesse Darling has just won the Turner prize.

gotomomo · 06/12/2023 07:54

It's not that common to fully transition but once it's happened you may not realise they are trans, my family member is very convincing. People in the public eye do not have to declare they are trans so it's only a matter of speculation if there are people.

The important thing is that whoever is considering it gets lots of support prior to any life altering changes, plenty of time to change their mind and really understands what they are signing up for. My family member asked to be a boy at age 4 I'm told (I'm newer on the scene) always hated their name etc. very happy now fully transitioned

PermanentTemporary · 06/12/2023 07:50

Youth indeed. I've known 3 men who transitioned and 9 girls/women. The oldest of the women is 23 now. The oldest of the men is 60.

WarriorN · 06/12/2023 07:47

Completely anecdotal, but I have seen a notable rise in visible trans men / non binary / binding women locally in the last year. (NE.)

I thought I was imagining it but many fellow terfs I've spoken to agree.

They're all school leavers and either starting work or getting holidays jobs / at uni. I felt like there was a trans (of some sort) identified female serving in the cafe of nearly every local tourist attraction last summer.

So definitely "youth" is a key qualifier.

there are any broad trends in the demographics and socioeconomic backgrounds of women who wish they were men. I'd be very interested as there seems to be a trend in some areas / schools locally. It can be hard to compare like for like across the country though. Demographics generally in the south east or London are very different to here.

Certainly still very strong links to autism from what I see in local and national groups catering for children with autism.

MrsJamin · 06/12/2023 03:53

sandletown · 05/12/2023 14:10

Lee Burkhill. Celebrity gardener. Often on tv.

I think you have this wrong too. What's the source of your information? I've been watching his videos on YouTube for ages and never thought this.

allgrownupnow · 06/12/2023 01:05

Jesse Darling - winner of the 2023 Turner prize

Villagetoraiseachild · 06/12/2023 00:29

Kae Tempest, recent documentary on the Beeb.

OutOfSyncWithReality · 06/12/2023 00:19

It's an interesting list - but not so many high profile trans men as the many trans women on adverts, comedy shows, TV, films.... I wonder why?

unwashedanddazed · 06/12/2023 00:05

Chaz Bono transitioned early 40s.

kinfauns · 05/12/2023 23:54

The singer Cavetown (Robin Skinner) is openly ftm trans with a huge following of female teenagers, many of whom identify as trans / non-binary

Rubidium · 05/12/2023 23:27

Andreas Krieger, formerly Heidi, an East German shot putter from the 1980s. A sad story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Krieger .

Andreas Krieger - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Krieger

Bearpawk · 05/12/2023 23:00

Mae Martin had top surgery fairly recently, not sure if full transitioning.

moogdroog · 05/12/2023 21:15

Héloïse Adelaïde Letissier / 'Chris' from Christine and the Queens 😢Think she's had some MH problems, triggered by the loss of her mother.
Doesn't seem to have taken hormonal steps yet though, and hopefully she'll have sense not to ruin her lovely voice.

mb2512cat · 05/12/2023 20:14

Runner Cal Calamia got a Therapeutic Use Exemption in the US to use testosterone while racing.