Scotland - New prison rules on housing trans inmates

It’s deflection. Nothing more than that.

There is an inherent risk that putting biological men in women’s prisons will lead to coercive relationships and pregnancy. This is obviously true. And the risk of pregnancy is introduced entirely by putting biological men in with women. Even if the relationships are consensual, pregnancy in prison is not a desirable outcome for anyone - especially the baby.

Instead of properly addressing the risks, the SPS have gone for the classic TRA/MRA approach of ‘well women do bad things too’ to deflect the issue.

Depressing.

From the Telegraph article:

Further fears were raised about trans criminals “initiating coercive relationships, and the risk of pregnancy with non-transgender women.” But it said that predatory and violent behaviour towards women in prison “also came from other women” and that it is “stigmatising to suggest that only transgender women are a threat”.

I've read exactly these sorts of comments from TRSOHers many many times.

Except it isn't the prisons that these violent males and the Scots government plan to use. It is vulnerable women with no ability to escape and no interest in their consent.

It is wicked.

Scottish plans to let violent trans women convicts into female jails to help prepare them for release are likened to using prisons as 'laboratories for experiment' by furious critics

Daily Mail explanation of the proposals https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12849531/Scottish-plans-let-violent-trans-women-convicts-female-jails-help-prepare-release-likened-using-prisons-laboratories-experiment-furious-critics.html

And this should also open the door to consideration of the fact that if you are arguing well obviously, no rapists or sex offenders but some men in some circumstances must be able to use women

then you are in fact accepting the rightness of men being provided with women to use as service animals and merely wanting to gatekeep a bit where that use breaks the women a bit too much. And looks bad in the press.

The issue is men using women at all. Whether as props or validation resources or furniture around their self identity, or as a toy to exploit and break. There aren't shades of it being ok. Again, unless you think females aren't equally human to males and have no business saying no to their birth duty to meet male need. In which case we're not talking about 'transphobia', we're actually talking about male supremacism.

I hope they get their arses sued to the far side of fuck for this appalling treatment of female prisoners.

Quite.

I would really like to see the use of non consenting female prisoners as therapy animals for male rapists examined in depth. You cannot think this is anything but abhorrent unless you believe that someone born with a penis has value and priority, and that someone born without has a birthright duty of service to those with penises.

Can you imagine, as a woman, being told you have to “mingle” with some rapists - for THEIR benefit - and pretend they are women? How cruel and unusual can you get? I hope they get their arses sued to the far side of fuck for this appalling treatment of female prisoners.

Let's all mingle with rapists! Yeah! What could possibly go wrong?

Kate from KPSS has just done a detailed interview on this SPS policy with Andrew Doyle on Free Speech Nation.

Her interview starts at 36 minutes into the programme.

If TWAW they can surely get validation and “practice” by mingling with each other. It seems to me that is the obvious solution. All of a country’s TW prisoners should go to the same prison and be housed together. Then they’d be with women right? No need to bother biological women if there’s no difference, as per gender ideology?

Surely it's during the 'mingling' that assaults and the like are going to happen?

I believe that's how FDJ, the female prisoner who took the MoJ to judicial review, which was sadly unsuccessful, was sexually assaulted

They're planning on making women share cells with male criminals, aren't they.

In Scotland women have already been made to shower with them.

Surely it's during the 'mingling' that assaults and the like are going to happen? Unless they were planning on some poor women having to share a cell with a tw.

Surely not.

That would be insane.

They're planning on making women share cells with male criminals, aren't they.

'mingle'.

Fucking 'mingle'.

No, SPS, dangerous men do not get to 'mingle' with women for their 'identity' needs.

'But the detailed guidance on its operation stated that even those deemed too dangerous to be housed in women’s prison could still be allowed to mingle with female inmates in other settings.

It said “there may be other ways of supporting their gender identity, for example through access to work parties, activities, or even programmes with others of their gender identity.”'

I say again:

Fuck their gender identity. And fuck the SPS.

Well, I've give this some thought:

Fuck their gender identity.

That men may have an existential crisis if not permitted to use women as a resource is pitiable and requires possible mental health services. It is not however the problem of imprisoned women. There is no human right of men to be provided with female humans.

I'm fucking sick of these men being referred to as if I share anything in common with them apart from my species.

The assumption that the women in prisons share any kind of identity with these men is ridiculous.

I keep thinking about the oft-shouted TRA claims of erasure. But the only thing being erased seems to be the category of biologically female women. TRAs are determined to redefine women and female and anything else that biologically female humans might use to describe themselves (distinct from biological men) that it leaves no vocabulary. The concept of a woman or female is entirely appropriated and what it previously meant is actually erased, or at least renders impossible to articulate.

The SPS has decided that men get to decide what ‘female gender identity’ is - and women just have to play their part in the pantomime that ensues.

What is this bullshit about 'share gender identity'?

I don't have a gender identity, I just have a physical reality of a female sexed body. That's it. That's all.

Let's be honest about this, a man who wishes to say that he 'shares a gender identity with me' has zero interest in my identity, my words for it, my feelings, or anything at all other than my female body. That is what he wants when he says he is coming in a space with me because we 'share a gender'. He is solely focused on my sex. No other part of me is in any way relevant to him. And his 'gender identity' in this sense is nothing more than saying he feels like he imagines being a biological woman might feel.

So he would like to use me as a prop in his self expression.

And unbelievably we have other men wibbling about the right of him to use me so long as his self expression doesn't break me to an extent that it would get inconvenient in the press. That is the only aspect they are remotely concerned with.

For those still dithering about whether or not sex is binary, fgs how much evidence do you need? There are two sexes. One gets to use the other freely without boundaries and to have identities and control everyone' s language and express themselves. The other gets to shut up and put up, and take the dirty end of the stick at all times, with bullying and worse if they fail to do this with a smile.
Just try saying 'I'm not 'cis'' or 'I'm a biological human female' and see what happens. If you're a man, people will applaud. If you're a female, the scolding, threats and worse start right here.

That’s horrific. Women can be made uncomfortable or scared, be forced to take part in a pretence with no evidence supporting it, and be basically used for the validation they give, all so a man, not just any man but a criminal man, can feel nice. What the actual fuck. What has gone wrong with the people in charge’s brains that they are taking these men seriously?! Even if they are “transgender” the FACTS are that does not change their sex and certainly does not change their offending rates and style. So they should be nowhere near a FEMALE prison which is about sex not gender. Which we know they understand because they put trans men there by default!

On top of that these are criminals, often sex offenders, to stand to gain from conveniently “identifying” as a woman. How can they not see that the whole thing is being abused and exploited exactly as self-ID obviously lays itself open to? FFS.

it’s not just that men’s feelings come before women’s rights and safety. It’s also that the wish of those in authority to appear woke and righteous according to a load of unevidenced guff comes before women’s rights and safety. That’s shameful.

The Telegraph have published another article on this, including violent criminals, rapists, allowing to mix with support bipeds that share their gender identity

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/10/trans-criminals-serve-time-female-jails-scottish-guidance/

https://archive.ph/dhuXq archive link

They acknowledge that the support bipeds might be coerced into relationships, be impregnated but, heck, women can be violent too, bigots!

I really hate the focus on transwomen with convictions for violence and sexual assault. I mean, obviously these men should never be in a women’s prison with no exceptions, but the assumptions seems to be that if you don’t have an actual conviction you must be totally safe, when we know that the vast, vast proportion of sexual offences and male violence do not end in conviction. Any male-bodied person could pose a risk to a woman, there is absolutely no way to know. So to put any transwomen in with women accepts that the safety of those women is not a priority. And that’s not even getting into how even if we could tell that a trans woman would never be a physical threat to a women, the psychological impact on women with histories of abuse in being locked up with them could be immense. It makes me so angry.

The concept of practising to be a woman is so unbelievably offensive.

Woman is not a costume you can put on and keep tweaking it til you feel it fits.

"practise being a woman"? . But surely they don't need practice, if they are women...

Would it be possible to FOI what the acceptable risks are? Or have they not spelled them out?