Parents of transgender teenager lose bid to stop mastectomy

The Telegraph is pretty awful recently. I no longer take anything in it at face value. I'd always look for the source information for the proper context.

I don't think you are trying to be funny BUT

what kind of 'reality' tells young people that they can be born in the the wrong body and that extreme body modification means that they become and will be treated as the opposite Sex?

It is you who believes in lies.

This is all abhorrent no matter what the gender extremists and men's rights activists have lobbied for.

The decision had nothing to do with whether or not it is legal to carry out mastectomies on healthy individuals. The judge was very clear this was not even considered. But in any case it was quite clear that it would be a private operation not nhs.

It is the correct result for what was in question .

The child was 17 at the hearing but 18 when the judgement was handed down and the judge was considerate of this fact. The parents represented themselves.

It was in no way an assessment of ‘gender affirming treatment’ - the judge made the point that no specific condition was being considered and no evidence for or against was being assessed. At this point EE (the child) was not due to have any treatment (though they would like to in the near future) so nothing specific for consider.

The only thing the judge was assessing was if EE had capacity based on the evidence presented. The parents’ evidence was very weak and not backed up by any recognised professional. It read like they considered any angry outburst by EE to be a ‘psychotic episode’ and stated that an incident recorded as domestic abuse by the police in 2012 was the father having a psychotic episode and therefore family history (no mental health professional involvement in that episode). The judge noted that merely making unwise decisions does not mean you do not have capacity.

It's worth reading the judgment that rogdmum has linked above https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/GK-and-LK-v-EE-Gender-Affirming-Medical-Treatment-2023-EWCOP-49.pdf

The judge is clear that the primary reason for refusing the parents' case was that there was no treatment planned and none planned for the foreseeable future so it was purely speculative. Without any proposed treatment it wasn't possible to assess the 'child's' capacity, as that would have to be assessed according to the actual treatment proposed and they were about to turn 18 so would in any case be an adult if there were future treatment. The whole thing sounds as if it was doomed to failure even if these were perfect parents and it's very clear from the judgment that there'd been a really troubled history. I'm not sure that anyone could read that judgment and think the decision was wrong.

They may be legal but they shouldn't be funded by the nhs.

The bottom line is that the NHS should not be performing mastectomies on women with healthy breasts

That's your opinion - which is a very different thing to the law. You can argue that these operations shouldn’t happen at all, but as they are legal, this decision has to be based on reality - not what you or anyone else thinks should happen.

Right. Let them have their decisions dictated by homophobic influencers on TikTok, instead.

The bottom line is that the NHS should not be performing mastectomies on women with healthy breasts, any more than they should be amputating the legs of those with BIID.

I can't see any evidence of the parents being homophobic beyond the say so of a confused child. It could just as easily be the case that the child has been groomed online to say what she needed to get her own confused way as it is that her parents are homophobic. Total mess of a family ultimately, whichever way this ends up going.

Because someone of nearly 18 should not have their decisions dictated by their parents based on homophobia.

The judgement is here:

https://www.judiciary.uk/judgments/gk-and-lk-v-ee-and-another/

IMO the judge had no choice but to find against the parents. They were trying to claim she was incapable of consent on the back of a one sentence statement by medical professional in another country (with no indication of what that person’s qualifications were) for a hypothetical treatment which their daughter might attempt to undergo at some point in the future- medical treatment which like it or not, is currently seen as standard for gender dysphoric adults with no need for psychological assessment.

I don’t like the situation we are in, but there are better ways of pushing back- eg Anna Castle’s judicial review

And if she's assessed as having capacity, she should have to sign something to agree she can't ever sue anyone for carrying out her request for surgery. There's been a few cases has there not of 'I'll sue if you don't do it, you're causing me harm' then 5 or so years later, 'I'm suing because you did the surgery'!

@StockpotSoup why?

Good. Right result.

Excellent question. Wasn’t there a woman who identified as blind and had a doctor make it so? Can’t remember the details.

Rational or not, once they're 18 they can have the final say on what treatments they undergo.

At who’s expense?

Fine if she wants to save for private treatment - however she should be assessed first to see how this is/will affect her later in life.

A difficult one. I can see the judgement reasoning - parents obviously have some very odd views, young person has grown up in a difficult situation and yes, is so nearly 18 that the court findings would be irrelevant as they can consent themselves as soon as they do.

But yes. Tragedy that this poor girl feels her only option is to destroy her healthy body parts, and that no one has offered any other meaningful support. I sincerely hope she does not come to suffer the awful regret later that detransitioners describe with some time and distance from the triggers that drove them into the hands of those who are ideological zealots and cut first and ... well. Largely don't think at all.

It puzzles me that there are so many sane and wise people on this forum yet out in the "real world" there seems to be so much madness.

World's gone mad!

Yes, but I was only commenting on the legal decision.

The teenager won't actually get the mastectomy at 18, they'll just be placed on a very long waiting list.

Poor kid. Awful parents, and let down by the health service and justice system, it seems.

And the nhs are funding this? When they are making people wait for cancer treatment? Fucking sacred group indeed.

I like Norway' medical recommendations to stave off any gender-affirming medical treatments until age 25. this young woman could benefit from maturity.