Sandi Toksvig "doesn't get it", poor love....

The reason that these "allies" get so very angry at people who refuse to toe the line is the discomfort caused when their bubble of cognitive dissonance is pierced. They then have to make statements they know deep down to be false. They don't like it and they blame you, why do you have to do this, why make a fuss, why can't you just STFU, it's inconvenient.

I've posted this a million times before but yet again I do just find it perpetually mindboggling how previously sensible-seeming women, who think of themselves as feminists and say they understand the disadvantages and risks women face, can allow themselves to think a male is "as much a woman as I am" because he says so. There is literally zero other evidence. A disguise doesn't make you what you're disguised as, even if it's convincing. If you're naive enough to need them, the stats that show male risk and pattern of sexual offending and harming women and children is not reduced by doing this, but actually increased, are freely available. Nothing is making them see that male as a woman but a powerful act of sexist self-oppression and self-subjugation - or a lie for the sake of cool points and who cares if women suffer.

How can they not see they're performing patriarchy like a trained seal?

The actual reason these men are supposed to be women is supposedly because they just "know they are" and "they know best". When have we ever previously applied this logic to people claiming to be something they're not and could never be? Especially when they stand to gain something from it? Just WTF?

Sometimes you haven’t got a choice but to use the nearest loo because you maybe bleeding heavily or being sick from illness or spiking. Problem is if you are on your own, then need help, no one will know as you are in a private ‘gender neutral’ toilet stall. So the mixed sex toilets are death traps for when people are at their most vulnerable. And obviously great places for illegal things to go on. That’s why there are lots of problems that historically have happened in disabled toilets. Now there’s more opportunities for things to go wrong.

Catherine Mayer is awful.

If it really bothers you there’s a toilet some place else. Go there. Shut up

Well this toilet belongs to women, women should not be chased out like Izzard chased those teenage girls out of their toilet. There are other toilets for men and they can go there instead.

As an aside, in co-WEP founder Catherine Mayer's book Attack of the 50ft Women, there's a chapter where she goes in women's public toilets with her transwoman friend - who openly admits he is sexually aroused by wearing 'women's' clothes, using women's spaces etc and yet she is emphatic that he is as much of a woman as she is. The total lack of awareness, self-preservation and safeguarding is just astonishing.

I have pictures of the outer doors to loos at their biggest Student Union, basically describing the plumbing facilities so that people can just choose whatever door they think fits their sex/gender identity/mood.

And it's a transphobic microaggression according to the University of Edinburgh.

Do you have a link to that? Is it still current or have the university quietly changed their minds about that being a good idea?

Thanks @JoodyBlueToo - I really should have checked before I posted 🤦‍♀️

And it's a transphobic microaggression according to the University of Edinburgh.

Women have to be forced to stay in those spaces through ridiculous social shaming adverts and forced organisational compliance because if they were allowed to leave then that means the male domination wouldn't have its desired target.

Is the suggestion that women, when seeing a man in the public toilet, should quietly leave and find another?

How terribly transphobic of her to suggest that. Hasn't she seen the Austrialian lift advert?

That's why there is so many triumphant 'look, I'm using your spaces and there's nothing you can do about it!!' photos.

I saw one video like this, it was an obviously male-looking, actively aggressive "TW" in a woman's toilet, growling into the camera that he was going to be in "your spaces" and you'd better suck it up. He actually said "your spaces" - he didn't even think of himself as a woman sufficiently to call them "our spaces" or "my spaces".

Thank you, Joody, I see what you meant now-bc of the court cases I had to defend the setup a lot so I can get over-defensice.
I def agree it's best that both bio parents want the child & want to be engaged in their life. It's not that same-sex couples, infertile couples or single parents shouldn't have children, but there needs to be a middle way for them to have families but the children not feel disconnected or adrift bc lack of contact w birth parents.

That's the one @Waitwhat23

It's male domination. Pure and simple. There's no 'they just want to pee'. They need the women forced to be in those spaces to be intimidated and silenced. They don't want a third space not because it is 'othering' but because they need the women in a single sex female space to be their own personal resource. That's why there is so many triumphant 'look, I'm using your spaces and there's nothing you can do about it!!' photos. The equivalent of a hunter with his boot on a wild animal he's just killed.

I know the cartoon you mean. The one where the well meaning friend, who truly believes TWAW, is abused and shouted at by the males in question but still somehow concludes 'it's all the TERF's fault'.

There are a lot of men like India Willoughby who aren't happy unless it's a women's toilet. They're not interested in unisex because it undermines their experience of womanhood. I've also seen a cartoon where a woman is matching her trans friend up for a date. She matches the trans friend with another trans friend and anger (hilariously) ensues. It's never good enough unless women are forced to play along.

My post isn’t going to be as erudite as most but I’m so fed of celebrities telling women to ‘shut up’ and thinking they are being kind.

If it really bothers you there’s a toilet some place else. Go there. Shut up.

Except the likes of India Willoughby has said they will go out of their way to go to any female only toilet.

There's not a toilet 'someplace else', when for some men it's nothing but a magnet.

Does she never give a thought to young lesbians? Whose online spaces, bars and clubs have all been infiltrated by men?

No, she can't possibly care about young lesbians. She doesn't care that almost all lesbian community groups have been driven underground and that hundreds, possibly thousands, of young lesbians have had double mastectomies and may have damaged their bodies permanently with cross-sex hormones because there are no visible young lesbian role models and no lesbian scene for them to find their tribe with. Well, none that doesn't include men larping as lesbians.

I used to know Sandy 40 years ago and I knew she'd had a rocky time at university because of her same-sex attraction and was sympathetic towards her. But she is so privileged and insulated, as others have said. Her father was a famous media/ TV presenter in Europe and worked at the BBC: she was a nepo baby.

If it really bothers you there’s a toilet some place else. Go there. Shut up.

Is the suggestion that women, when seeing a man in the public toilet, should quietly leave and find another?

She can't mean that some toilets are single sex, and some are 'women and men with gender'. Because it would be necessary to be able to distinguish these toilets. Sandi must know that men with gender would not tolerate being excluded from some womens toilets.

Saying "Go there. Shut up." suggests to me she knows this is not a reasonable situation, but she cannot think of a better one, and is getting irritated with that fact.

she lives in the same street as Sally Hines doesn't she?

in a position of extreme privilege where she's insulated from, well, pretty much everything through little to no merit of her own.

I mean you can't help where you come from, but at least you can have the insight not to bang on about the privilege of others as if it's some kind of gotcha that proves your mad opinions are right

Of course it would. Which is why she absolutely does not believe it.

Does she never give a thought to young lesbians? Whose online spaces, bars and clubs have all been infiltrated by men?

I remember this. They stayed in a cottage or cottages together didn't they? I posted tongue-in-cheek idly wondering whether Sandi would consider Izzard as a potential sexual partner now he was a woman and was deleted because someone was outraged at the suggestion and thought I was disgusting. But if Sandi really does believe men can be women (and presumably thus be lesbians), as it would seem from the article in the OP, and if she really gets on as well as she appeared to with Izzard, then surely it would be transphobic to say the very idea was disgusting?

There's a sense that you can be a woman, with women's biology, but not too much.

It's still conditional.

If it really bothers you there’s a toilet some place else. Go there. Shut up.

Is this saying that single-sex toilets are a good thing, then? Or does she think they shouldn't exist?

That breastfeeding 'advice' is bizarre. While the baby is latched on, you won't see much boob unless you're really looking, so not really any need to cover up.

When it's hard to latch and the baby pops off, yeah you're gonna see nipple, but draping a muslin over the baby's face is NOT going to help - I vaguely remember trying to hold a muslin with my chin, while one hand was on the breast and the other holding the child.

" If you are being discreet no one should mind." The implication being if anyone minds, it's because you weren't discreet enough.

She really is either dim, dismissive, or dishonest.

I've seen parts of the interview reproduced in other news sites. The ones I've seen have cut the guff about trans, leaned into the implied disdain for Noel and reproduced the kind things he's said about her. She's not coming across particularly well.