Sandi Toksvig "doesn't get it", poor love....

I've not breastfed but I've seen a fair number of women do it in - gasp - public. I find the notion that it's "tits out" offensive. Generally you see less boob than you would if it was just a woman in a low cut top because there's a baby latched on. It's natural, it's totally and utterly normal and anyone who's uncomfortable with it needs to have a serious word with themselves. There is no need to think about other people's "comfort" because it's you and your child who are important. Good lord to turn breastfeeding into a "manners" thing would be hilarious if it wasn't so offensive. Do piss off, Sandi, you ridiculous Aunt Lydia.

I've read a couple of her books. She totally gets lesbophobia and sexism. She knows how women are treated, globally, historically, predictably.

So it's absolutely gutting that she can't see it now. And I do think it's because of her privileged position. Plus she's in a secure relationship, so as others have pointed out, she won't be dating, stepping over demanding AGPs or being asked if she's really a man. By people who consider themselves progressive and compassionate!

She won't be realising that the word lesbian, the very concept, is being colonised by fetishistic men.

And she's surrounded by others in a similarly insulated position.

If she does realise all this and is still happy to publicly hand wring, then i'd have to conclude she is quite spectacularly hypocritical.

I am surprised by that neighbourhood. That is certainly not a feminist approach and reeks of someone who has little personal experience of breast feeding. There was no way my child would breast feed under a shawl or anything. I know they are not unusual.

That statement about ‘making it a public display’ is victim blaming all the way. What a thoughtless piece of advice.

The careful use of a shawl or muslin to cover yourself while the baby is latched on can mean a successful feed while not exposing yourself to strangers. If someone has a problem with you after that, keep calm and don't engage with their irritation.

Errm… did Aunt Lydia write this to the Handmaids in her charge?

Seriously though. Women! It’s your job to make sure nobody ever feels remotely uncomfortable when you’re feeding your child. And if you’re all carefully covered up with a shawl but someone still has a problem with that, do not object. Know your place!

So…. How does Sandi feel about someone like Jordan Gray whipping out the family jewels for a spot of piano playing in public, while singing a song about being superior to biological women? Would she care if anyone felt uncomfortable in that scenario? Or would she be clapping and cheering for Jordan?

Hmm. I really couldn’t guess.

Don't comment. If you must say something simply ask if it's a boy or a girl. Also ask yourself why you needed to say something.

Oh, it’s ok for adults to assume a baby’s gender then?

She seriously advised breastfeeding women to be discrete and not cause discomfort to others?!?! And STILL claim to be a feminist?

That Sandi is a complete arse and a privileged sell out.

"Be discreet. Of course your child's welfare is more important than other people's sensibilities, but it is perfectly possible to breastfeed a child without making it into a public display. The careful use of a shawl or muslin to cover yourself while the baby is latched on can mean a successful feed while not exposing yourself to strangers. If someone has a problem with you after that, keep calm and don't engage with their irritation. If you are being discreet no one should mind."

-Sandi Toksvig, who has never been pregnant nor breastfed.

This. Also, at Sandi's age, she's unlikely to be navigating dating apps infested with autogynephiles.

This issue is just not very relevant to her as an individual; therefore, it is not relevant at all.

I agree.

Which means she must simply think marginalised women, like rape victims, imprisoned women, survivors of CSA, religiously observant women, disabled women who need intimate care (i.e. they need someone to wash them) should put the comfort of men above their own mental and physical safety.

I think that's worse than thick. Some people aren't intelligent. That's not a flaw that they can be held responsible for, any more than it would be my nephew's fault if he's colour-blind. It is his responsibility if he kicked a football into next-door's greenhouse though.

Sandi is intelligent, so she's knowingly choosing to condone trampling over some of the most vulnerable women in the country.

She is a smug, nasty, arrogant, traitorous piece of work, who is not half as smart as she wants us to believe, I’ve never liked her.

Then you're quite ridiculously thick and unaware of other women in the world less privileged than you, Sandi.

I can assure you that Sandi Toksvig is very far from'thick'

Heavens, I'm surprised she didn't add a little admonishing coda to babies like my two, who had a a great knack of snatching off any artfully draped shawl with a real air of 'LOOOOOOK! MY MA'S BOOBS EVERYONE!'

I have Sandi Toksvig's book on manners, Peas and Queues. It's mostly a good, amusing read, and probably valuable for many people moving in to their first shared house. I would have liked my old flatmates to have read it, I think. More on that later.

But its guiding principle is a focus on other people's comfort, and there are some pitfalls here. Firstly, what happens to you if you feel a moral duty to prioritise other people, and they are happy to accept your service without ever reciprocating? It would not, for example, have helped me to read this book before my first flatshare, because I was already far too inclined to put other people first. (Fortunately, joining MN when I was 21 got me out of this.)

There are a tremendous number of generous, compassionate women who have ended up permanently surrounded by people who take, take, take, but never ever give back.

Secondly, I think Toksvig sometimes has difficulty identifying who the most vulnerable person is, in any situation, if it would conflict with her advising a woman to put herself last.

I offer you this passage from her manners guide, on pages 217-218.

Sandi Toksvig on Breastfeeding

This is an area that causes no end of trouble. Breastfeeding is good for a baby. I think we can all agree on that. What causes friction is where and how the breastfeeding takes place. The Equality Act 2010 states that you can't discriminate against a woman because she is breastfeeding. No one can stop you breastfeeding in public so a restaurant or café, for example, cannot refuse to serve you. However, what are the words we're looking for? Consideration and comfort.

The baby needs to be comfortable but it's not a bad idea if everyone else is, too. The fact is that the baby needs to get to your bare breast and not everyone may want to share the view.

In public

Be discreet. Of course your child's welfare is more important than other people's sensibilities, but it is perfectly possible to breastfeed a child without making it into a public display. The careful use of a shawl or muslin to cover yourself while the baby is latched on can mean a successful feed while not exposing yourself to strangers. If someone has a problem with you after that, keep calm and don't engage with their irritation. If you are being discreet no one should mind.

When someone else is breastfeeding in public

Don't stare.

Don't draw attention to it even if you don't like it.

Don't comment. If you must say something simply ask if it's a boy or a girl. Also ask yourself why you needed to say something.

Wonderful, woman-centred advice there from WEP founder, Sandi Toksvig.

Seconded

THIS

It is not just handing over other women's rights, it is literally presenting men with women to use, and supporting that those women either consent and strip or lose their access to that space, that sport, that resource, that bit of health care. In the case of prisons and hospital wards, those women have no escape.

How vile do you have to be to think using your power and voice to sell those women's bodies for male use is ok? How 'other' do you have to see those women?

@MouseMinge 😁

This!!! The generously giving away protections she doesn’t need is the most galling of all. I’m sick of celebrities behaving in this self aggrandising way and condescendingly handing down these judgements. I’ve lost so
much respect for people like Toksvig.

It's all bullshit - I thought she was better than this, I suppose it would be career ending for her and a lot of her luvvies would get upset.

Maybe her lot of feminists were fine with lesbians and just didn't like her. She's always leaned toward being a pompous know-it-all so it would hardly be a stretch to imagine she wasn't well-liked.

She doesn't want to get it. Money and popularity mean so much more than the precious lives of women and girls.

But lesbians are being excluded NOW because they make feminism look bad. Women who only want sex with other women are vilified by the libfem fluff Sandi thinks is feminism.

That's not something that happened in the past - lesbians have always been at the core of feminism. But it is certainly happening now and Sandi is cheerleading it.

Sandi gets it. Sandi knows exactly what the problems are, cos Sandi is not daft.

Sandi IS, however, a coward.

@FinallyFinalGirl 👏🏻 it's always those of us who have suffered abuse that 'get it'. I thought ST was intelligent 🙄