Sandi Toksvig "doesn't get it", poor love....

Sandi Toksvig's terrible memory by Glinner, in case you need reminding who funds WEP.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/sandi-toksvigs-terrible-memory

Calling someone with a bigoted belief a bigot isn't name calling, it's describing.

Thinking gay couples should not be able to get married is a bigoted belief.

Sandi is intelligent, so she's knowingly choosing to condone trampling over some of the most vulnerable women in the country.

I suspect like many privileged women she lives in such a bubble that vulnerable women simply don’t exist in her world and she clearly gives people outside her cozy privileged bubble no thought whatsoever except when she complacently assumes she knows better so feels free to reprimand us.

Victoria Smith (glosswitch) has done a fantastic article on the phenomenon of men lecturing women to find the middle ground, be kind and so on:

https://thecritic.co.uk/ive-done-the-work-thanks/

I would go a step further and say that it is often quite hard for people to go beyond Empathy Level Zero: 'Well, it's fine for me.' Sometimes combined with: 'Oh I've never heard about that' and 'It isn't an issue round here.'

It isn't affecting them directly, they can't seem to make that mental leap.

its all a big ‘watch your tone, ladies’ as an argument @Flickersy.

So you think it’s not name calling if it’s bishops who don’t agree with you?

Which conservatives policies have been far right? Which labour ones are far left?

Honest to God, I cannot express how angry I am that even know we still have people thinking that the answer to the ridiculous extremism "trans rights" went to needs to be countered by throwing out the whole idea of a middle ground and leaning into equal-but-opposite extremism. Most of our current problems are because the Tories have been hard right since the referendum and Labour was hard left, and they threw out the sensible middle everywhere so loads of us were left politically homeless. The answer to this is not yet more polarisation.

Toksvig is being a fool over this, but putting that down to centrist politics in general is incorrect and frankly dangerous. The hard right is no friend to women either and I'm more than a little sick of seeing it dressed up in sheep's clothing.

I'm guessing izzard didnt proposition her when they made that public information episode of 'extraordinary escapes'.

What I'm saying is she's shielded from the damaging effects of TRA and benefits a lot from the publicity around it. For someone who regularly dips her toes into politics, she really has no clue how lots of people live. She expects others to 'be kind' when she would never be in the situation to 'be kind' herself.

The only time she used the word bigot in the article OP posted was when talking about the CofE. It wasn't directed at individuals or people who disagree with her.

Yes. Also, re your earlier comment on Sandi: Sandi's problem here is she's very satisfied in finding middle ground. - she was a high profile supporter of the LibDems in the 200s before WEP. The LibDems are the very definition of the middle ground in UK politics - handwringing, #bekind, and right behind all the TWAW stuff.

The thing about ‘name calling’ and not being polite about toksvig is that… she has a massive media platform and she’s used that to call people who don’t agree with her ‘bigots’.

After that point, it’s ridiculous to be complaining that people have been rude about her.

It has amazed me, and continues to do so, just how many very intelligent, highly educated people 'just don't get it' - and I work in a school.....

But I don't think it's that they don't get it, I think it's that they don't BELIEVE us.

They don't believe that any medical professionals would support this if it was, in deed, harmful.

No, they're not putting rapists in women's prisons, are they? Haha, they're not letting grown men play football with teenaged girls, that's so stupid!!!

Or it's :

Well, I have had a baby and the doctor was a man so I wouldn't have a problem with anyone doing intimate care, I have a lovely transwoman friend and I don't mind sharing a loo with her, my daughter's friend has just come out as trans and she's so happy now.....

Because although we may live and breathe forstater, Joyce, keira bell etc they are not household names.

I my experience, though, it just takes one man in the ladies loo or changing room for someone to realise it's actually quite a frightening prospect.

If Sandi is so passionate about her belief that lesbians are people of either sex attracted to people of either sex, I'm surprised she hasn't spoken up to make this clear before now.

So many times it's been the assumption that when she uses the term, it meant "females attracted to females" it's odd she has never clarified this over the decades.

Toksvig didn't specify the UK or US though.

She said the feminist movement had a history of excluding lesbians. And contrary to the legion of people here declaring that a lesbian was wrong about the treatment of lesbians, she is in fact correct.

This this this.

Paging Chandler Bing in heaven, could she BE any more privileged?

Toksvig came out in 1994 and has spent her public life campaigning for equality, including women’s and LGBTQ+ rights.

“I’ve been an activist all of my life. It’s a core part of who I am. We’re here, we’re making noise – and we’re not going away,” she said.

if she's going to be public about this, she might get something of a shock.

She will be asked about lesbianism. I really can't see her defending it, and defending transactivism simultaneously, without realising she's in a world of cognitive dissonance.

And, as we all know, you're either 100% in, or you're just a bigot like the rest of us.

I can't remember precisely, but I think Toksvig spent some time in the US. Her father worked there? So her formative years. Might have influenced her opinions on how lesbianism was received.

Or might they have taken a break to go and read up on Betty Friedan and the lavendar menace before they declare that Toksvig is in fact correct that lesbians were excluded from the mainstream feminist movement for a number of years.

Betty Friedan was in the US. In the UK, lesbians were an integral part of the women's liberation movement. I'm old enough to remember 1970s feminism, which may give me a slight advantage.

she's a highly educated, very intelligent woman. She gets it. She's pretending not to.

I appear to have missed the announcement you're the policing body for use of a public forum?

Has everyone stopped demonstrating their ignorance of the evolution of second wave feminism by telling a lesbian she is wrong about the attitude to lesbians in the feminist movement in the 60s and 70s?

Or might they have taken a break to go and read up on Betty Friedan and the lavendar menace before they declare that Toksvig is in fact correct that lesbians were excluded from the mainstream feminist movement for a number of years.

Don't be disingenuous.

It's completely hypocritical to say shaming other women is unfeminist on a thread which is loaded with insults towards a woman because she has the "wrong" opinion.

Pointing that out is not scolding or shaming. Or is it ok to shame and insult women when they have the wrong thoughts?